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The NASA Toothpaste You’ve Never Heard Of (But Should Be Using)

The NASA Toothpaste You’ve Never Heard Of (But Should Be Using)
The NASA Toothpaste You’ve Never Heard Of (But Should Be Using)
The NASA Toothpaste You’ve Never Heard Of (But Should Be Using)

Summary:

What if your daily dental routine could support your health, the planet, and your mental well-being simultaneously?

In this episode of the Secure Dental Podcast, Belinda Lau, CEO and co-founder of ELIMS, discusses her journey in building a sustainable dental care brand, emphasizing clean ingredients, eco-friendly packaging, and the importance of mental wellness and support in entrepreneurship. Concerned by the waste in healthcare, she was inspired to create environmentally friendly and effective oral care products using clean ingredients and sustainable packaging. Their flagship products include a nano-hydroxyapatite toothpaste and dissolvable whitening strips designed for sensitive teeth, offering natural, food-grade alternatives to traditional formulas. By bootstrapping the business and leveraging strong partnerships within the dental community, they’ve grown organically without outside funding. Belinda emphasizes the value of real-world experience, support networks, and prioritizing mental wellness in entrepreneurship while aiming to shift healthcare toward safer, cleaner, and more sustainable solutions.

Tune in to discover how Belinda built a purpose-driven brand and how her story can inspire your journey to impact and wellness!

 

Secure Dental - Belinda Lau: Audio automatically transcribed by Sonix

Secure Dental - Belinda Lau: this mp3 audio file was automatically transcribed by Sonix with the best speech-to-text algorithms. This transcript may contain errors.

Dr. Noel Liu:
Welcome to the Secure Dental Podcast. Through conversations with the brightest minds in the dental and business communities, we'll share practical tips you can use to scale your practice and create financial freedom for yourself and your family. My name is Dr. Noel Liu, CEO and dentist at Secure Dental, and also co-founder of DentVia. I'm your host for the Secure Dental Podcast, and I'm so glad you're joining in.

Dr. Noel Liu:
All right, everyone! Welcome to another episode of our Secure Dental podcast, where we bring in many different individuals from both inside and outside our dental industry. And this podcast for today has been sponsored by DentVia. DentVia is a dental administration company that helps our front desk staff and our managers to assist them with the back-end tasks. So, definitely visit them at www.DentVia.com. Once again, it's www. D E N T V I A .com. So, today we have a special guest, Belinda Lau. She is CEO and co-founder of ELIMS, meaning spelled the word smile spelled backwards. I just learned that right now. So, that is so amazing. It's a science-driven, sustainable oral care company on a mission to reimagine oral care with effective yet clean ingredients and planet-friendly design. This is something which we find very difficult to find these days. And what you're doing here, Belinda, is amazing. She is a former biomedical and materials science engineer and holds dual degrees from Carnegie Mellon University, and has over 20 years of experience with life-saving medical devices, back in her old life with insulin pumps and spinal implants. And today, she is the CEO of LMS. Now let's dive right in, Belinda. Let's talk about it.

Belinda Lau:
Let's do it.

Dr. Noel Liu:
What was your life like before ELIMS?

Belinda Lau:
Well, I guess going way back. My parents came from Southeast Asia. They were born and raised in Burma, and they actually moved to Canada. I was born and didn't have anything. My father tells me the story about how he had 14 US, he had 20 USD in his pocket, and when he went to the Thailand airport, he bought a drink, and that cost $6. And so, he actually came to the US with just 14 USD and really built a life, really with nothing, just with his grit and his own hands, and with me and my siblings. We actually grew up in my mom's shop. She had a little gift shop in downtown Vancouver, and that was really our first taste of what I know now to be business acumen. So, when we were very little, we every weekend, every summer break, every Christmas break, people going to summer camp or going to their grandma's house. Me and my brother and my sister were in the shop working every single day. And as a kid, you don't really like it. But as I'm older now, business is very natural to me. Back then, when I was a little girl drawing little signs to say, Sale $9.99. That's marketing. When I had to help clean out the back office, that's inventory management. When we had to count and do the bookkeeping every day, that's finance. So, looking back, those experiences were very valuable to me growing up. And it really gave me the sense that you can really do anything in your life if you really put your mind to it, and you work hard, and you just put your head down and do the good work. So, I grew up in my parents' shop. My father did very well later on his life, growing a luggage business, and so I traveled the world with him to get understand more about marketing and really running a very large organization. It was about 400 people that he managed at the very, towards the end of his career. For me, when I look to go to college, my father said, look, get something where you can get a job right away after you graduate. My father was very practical and very efficient. I really wanted to go into business, and he said, business is in your blood. You don't need to go to school for that. Go and get a skill set. And so, when I looked at what I was good at, I was really always good at science and math. And I thought, okay, engineering is a nice way to go. And my father really as an immigrant parent, he said, basically, you can be anything you want to be as long as it's a dentist, a doctor, a lawyer or an engineer, so I said, okay, well, these four options, I think the engineering route is the best for me. And I really love the biological sciences, and I really love math. And so, I went to Carnegie Mellon, got this dual degree in both biomedical engineering and materials science engineering. And later on in my career, I was really able to combine those two backgrounds working at Medtronic, building medical devices, because you really have to understand the science and the materials behind all the products, even in the dental world. Like, I look at all these composites and like the different coatings you can put on implants. Like I learned about those things, like hydroxyapatite and all of those things that we coated in engineering school, and fast forward many years later, I'm still around those same technologies. When I graduated college, I went to work for Medtronic for 15 years in various roles, all in product development. So, some in engineering, some in program management, some in marketing. I was really able to experience different parts of how a business is run, and that is really the beauty of that organization, is if you have a passion and you're smart, you're hardworking, you can really learn different skill sets. And so, I spent the majority of my career there. And then, actually, eventually, I wound up going to business school because I promised my dad I would get a master's degree. The child of immigrants. The whole goal is to level up your kids, and no one in my family at the time had a master's degree, so I wound up going back to UCLA, Anderson, here in Los Angeles, and getting my MBA back in 2020. And really, that experience gave me the confidence and sort of the passion to explore something outside of a very set role in like, corporate America. And I really, I always wanted to do something on my own. I always dabbled, I had like little internet businesses all through my life. And my husband is a dentist, and we looked at each other one day and were like, why don't we do something in this field? Like, why don't we build something? So my husband is a, he's been a dentist for now like over 20 years. And we just felt both my background and his background. There's got to be something, right? There's gotta be something here between the two of us, between medical devices and dentistry. And when I worked at Medtronic, I always felt very I was very always concerned about how much waste and trash was built up by the healthcare industry. I used to go to a lot of hospital visits, and you just see these sterile packaging, Tyvek packaging, all of these autoclave bags and things like that really build up, including all the gloves and the bibs and everything. And I just, I always just thought, why can't this stuff be more biodegradable? Or how can we close the loop on this waste problem because of the sterile requirement? You really need to make sure that the products work, the packaging works, and all of that stuff. Even in diabetes care, I worked in the diabetes industry for 12 years. And the syringes and the insulin sensors, the glucose sensors, the packaging, it all comes in as one-time use. Pop in the sensor, you throw away all the packaging. And it was just always stuck in my mind. And so, I just started thinking like, how can I solve this problem, but like in a smaller chunk, like how can I solve it in a smaller way? And so when I looked, the dental industry was always so interesting to me. I feel compared to medical device I used to work in, like class three, the highest risk products at with the FDA, and I just found the dental industry to be a little bit more of the Wild West. There was a bit more because the industry is so established. There's a, the FDA kind of turns a little bit of like a calm eye to the oral care side of things. So, I thought, okay, maybe I could do something here. So, just when I was in business school, I just really started looking into how big is the market, what are the needs I started to see in the beauty and the personal care space, this trend towards more sustainable packaging, more responsible ingredients, cleaner ingredients. And I really wanted to learn about how to make healthcare products more sustainable. And I just thought, okay, I think I can do this in oral care. If I can do it in oral care, then I can learn and apply these learnings and apply it to all of healthcare. And so, that's really where we started to think from. And we started doing our research. We wound up getting into a clean tech accelerator called the Clean Tech Open. It's the largest business accelerator for sustainable technologies. And people are building like windmills and electric vehicles. And here I am, I'm like, let's talk about toothbrushes and toothpaste tubes. So, it was we were a little different because everybody in the planet needs to brush their teeth. It's a very relatable topic, as I'm sure you're the life of the party every time you show up because people are asking you a question about their teeth. And I think.

Dr. Noel Liu:
Isn't it true? I bet your husband feels the same way, right?

Belinda Lau:
Oh, he's my best party trick. I don't even need to talk because he shows up and people are asking him about dental implants and crowns, and all the whole gamut of oral care questions. That's where we started to really think about. We bought. We bona fide our business through this business accelerator. We won a few like of these business pitch competitions.

Dr. Noel Liu:
Oh, nice.

Belinda Lau:
Yeah, we had a little bit of seed funding, and then we actually launched during the pandemic. So, we launched in 2021 and we came out with a line of products that are have sustainable packaging, reduced packaging, more clean ingredients. So, our hero products are nano-hydroxyapatite toothpaste with ten nano-hydroxyapatite, and then we have a teeth whitening product that dissolves. So, it's like a Crest White strip, but we removed all of the strip parts. So, like the film, the plastic film, the plastic packaging, all of that went away when we developed a dissolving strip. So, you just apply it to your teeth, it dissolves in seconds. It's with hydrogen peroxide, so it still works and great for sensitive teeth. We started with these base products, and to this day we actually we haven't raised any money by design. My husband and I were like, can we do this on our own? Can we build the business to fuel itself? And so far, four years later, we're still here, still going strong. Unclear about these tariffs and things like that coming in. But so far, at least in the personal care industry, when you compare us to some of the deodorants and other personal care products, we're still here. And so, I'm very proud of that. And I'm proud about the awards we've won and the accolades we've gotten on a very shoestring budget. So, really, that's a kudos to the dental industry and our partnerships with dental offices, dentists, and hygienists who try our product, who've seen what we've done, who've looked at our data and said, this is a good product. And that's how we've organically grown, is really through partnerships with the dental community.

Dr. Noel Liu:
And that's the way, and I loved what you just said about like collaborating with different people, different, what do you call it, industries as well. Because at the end of the day, when we are starting up a business or we are actually running it, we need collaboration. And I really, something really resonated. You just said about your dad said, business is in our blood, I love it. I'm stealing that.

Belinda Lau:
It's in our bones.

Dr. Noel Liu:
Right, go get a skill set. Business is in our blood. This is such a powerful statement, and I think it resonates with a lot of immigrants that come here right where their parents are from another country. So, I think that's really strong. So, tell me, when you started this business and how long ago, how long was the transition for you from your previous place, then you were working at Medtronic, and then you started this here, were you like, did you start them like while you were working, or did you like quit that place?

Belinda Lau:
Yeah, even worse, I was in business school full time. I was raising three kids under the age. I was working full-time at Medtronic, and I was starting the business. It was a very busy time of my life, and thank God, my mother is healthy and she was able to come and help us during that challenging time. When doctor, I think you will understand when you are so passionate and so driven about a new project, a new idea.

Dr. Noel Liu:
Right, right.

Belinda Lau:
Like you cannot stop. Like, I could not stop. I was, like, so engulfed in the excitement of what this product, this business could be, who I could be in this process. And so, even though I was very busy, it was all worth it because, number one, I was working at this fantastic company, Medtronic, that where I was able to learn. Actually, during that time, I pivoted my career into operations, so I could learn how the business on the back end operates. So, I went from engineering to marketing to operations, and then at the same time, I was in business school reinforcing some of these learnings, and then I was applying it to the business, so I really, I don't know if I could have done it any other way. I really gained a lot of confidence about my own abilities because it was I was able to learn and apply it at the basically at the same time, even though it was a difficult time, it was very challenging. Even running the business now is very challenging, a lot of headwinds.

Dr. Noel Liu:
Absolutely.

Belinda Lau:
Rising costs like competition, a lot of different things. The grit that I learned now, when things go wrong or there's a mistake or something, I'm not as blown up about it as I was at the beginning of the business. Because you learn, you say you think to yourself, when have I seen this before? You know, when have I experienced this before? And I talk to a lot of budding entrepreneurs, people who have an idea who want to start a business. And if that person that I'm talking to has never worked at another company, I always encourage them. These are students, usually in college or in their master's program. I always tell them, go work for someone else for a little while. Just 2 or 3 years. Learn how they do business. Learn what they're doing right. Learn what they're doing wrong, and that way you can apply it to your business. It's basically business school in a nutshell. And then you can also get a salary fund your business. You don't have to go fundraise. If you are able to take a little bit of your salary and put it into the business, I really think it's so valuable to work for someone else to see how it's done and apply it to your own business. So, even when different things happen in at least in my current business, I go back and I think, where did I see this before in my career? Is there a time where this happened? And I always, almost always have some kind of analogous story that I can apply and the learnings that I can apply to the business? And I think that's the beauty of being an older entrepreneur. I don't want to age myself. I grew up without internet. So, let's just say that. And because of because of that, I feel like I can, I tackle problems from a place of experience, rather a place of like constant turmoil, if you will.

Dr. Noel Liu:
What you just said, I think, what I feel like you do have some sort of personal development that you went through during this whole time, and I can tell from your experience, from what you went through and what you're telling me, exactly what you discovered on the other side. I want you to share a little bit of the secret sauce about that grit and the work-life balance, because people need to understand when you're running a business or you're starting up, there's a lot at stake. You're putting your entire family on the line, right? So I want you to talk a little bit about that because people go, oh, yeah, he's a guy. He can do it. But you as a female is 1,000% my respect to you. How did you do it? With family, with job, and husband, and parents, right? How did you do it?

Belinda Lau:
Taking care of elder parents, taking. Raising kids, making sure they're growing up, right?

Dr. Noel Liu:
What was a superpower?

Belinda Lau:
A superpower? I think it's really just there's really no secret sauce, I think, for myself. I've always been a very hard-working person. I don't really need like, fame. I don't need glory. I really just, I really want my kids to do well. I want them to grow up to be responsible humans. I want to maintain a happy marriage with my husband, who's also my business partner. That's very, I want to take care of myself. Like I want to run marathons, I want to be able to work out and feel healthy in my body, and be nourished. It is a lot of planning, and it's a very busy life, I would say, like taking care of myself. And if you're an entrepreneur out there, taking care of yourself is so important. I remember the first year of the business, this was during the pandemic, and we launched in July of 2021. And you turn on the website, you make your press release, and then you expect like millions of dollars to come into your business. You're like, how come? No, how come I'm not a millionaire overnight, right? And so we tried a bunch of different things, and my, even my husband said, how does anyone know this business exists? How does anyone know, right? Like, people are so busy and consumed with their lives. How are you? How do people get awareness that we're here? And so I remember the first six months was so difficult. I remember being very stressed, a lot of anxiety, very little sleep. We had some product issues, not product issues. We had issues importing the product, some of the products' components from the UK we had, we weren't getting the traction that we projected, and there was just so many things. And I remember almost having a breakdown, and this is such an important thing because what I did is I reached out to other entrepreneurs, my friends, people who were business owners, and that's so important. If you're an entrepreneur, you need to have a network of people who are running businesses because even though the business is different, the size of the business is different. The products you sell is different. The experience, the anxiety, the sleepless nights, the stress that is all the same for all of us, running a dental practice. Very stressful, managing staff. These are all things us, as business owners, have to experience, and so I really encourage people to find other business owners, friends who are going through that, and call them in your time of need. You don't need to tell them that you're stressed. You don't need to tell them that you're lonely and making these decisions. You just need to call. Because that's what I did. I called two of my friends, and one of them was like, stop talking about your business. I can't even talk to you right now because I can see that your mind is not in the right place. You have not slept. You are malnourished. You have an exercise. All you've been doing is this business. You need to stop. Give yourself three weeks off. Three weeks off. I said, how can I stop for three weeks? I don't care how you do it. Just turn it all off for three weeks. Take these vitamins. Take your vitamins. Get more than seven hours of sleep. Good sleep per night. Do some yoga classes, like she gave me a prescription of basically how to just unplug. And honestly, I thought she was crazy, and I said there's no way I could do this. But she gave me some tools. She helped me find some, like people to help me out in some certain parts. And then I literally took it wasn't a full three weeks, but I did take two weeks to unplug. And that was magical because I literally was able to think again. I was able to be creative again. And I remember one, I had a lot of advisors and mentors at the very beginning of the business, and I were talking to one of my advisors, and he gave me some advice, and I felt I was able to absorb that better, and I was able to make better decisions. So, really, is there a secret sauce? Being busy doesn't mean that you're being successful. Really understanding what are the important things that really matter and what are what needs to be done, and then having that self-awareness to be like, hey, I'm not okay. I am not sleeping.

Dr. Noel Liu:
Right, right.

Belinda Lau:
I'm not making good decisions. I am not serving the business. I am not serving my shareholders because I am not showing up at 100%. So, that's really it. You can have the family and the business and run the marathons and all of these things, but you really need to know when to train for the marathon, when to lean into. You can never turn the kids off, but there are certain times where I know now, four years in, that my business during the summertime is not very busy. So, that's I can prepare for that. I can say, okay, during the summer I can chill. And I know that the business is very busy at the end of the year. So, there are certain times of the year where I know the business is going to need me more. So, it's it ebbs and flows in terms of stress. So, I really encourage people who are running their own business to understand those business cycles and take the time to reset and recharge, when the business is not as busy. So, those are the, that's how I view life and how I review, look at my superpowers. Really just prioritizing and understanding what's important and what's not.

Dr. Noel Liu:
I love it, I love it. You are like a true testament of somebody when. So, I read a lot of books, right? And I'm sure you heard of Jim Rohn and Bob Proctor and all these guys from the personal development world. One of those things that really caught my attention, and this was like recently, like a few years back, they were like, you just let go, you let go, and you let universe happen and things automatically fall in place. The more you chase, the more you try to be busy, the more it runs away from you. And when I hear you, I heard your story. I'm like, wow, this is exactly what you did. You unplugged yourself, and everything just started falling in place. It reminds me of that saying when they say in an airplane, when the oxygen masks come down, everybody says, right, put on your office first before you put on your passenger, your next door passenger. And I think that's exactly how it is in business. You got to take care of yourself first before you can take care of your team members and the business.

Belinda Lau:
Yeah, and find people to support you. People you trust, people who know you, maybe within the business context, but people who really care about you regardless of the outcome of your business. Sometimes, if you have investors, they're like, oh, take care of yourself so you can make me more money, but, you know, there's people who just really are invested in making sure they just want to see you successful. And those are the best people, because when you call them, it's maybe once or twice a year. But when you call them, you know that they're going to give you some solid advice, and you are going to be better for making that phone call.

Dr. Noel Liu:
You may or may not like it, right?

Belinda Lau:
Yes, exactly. It's so important to have that network, that support.

Dr. Noel Liu:
So let's talk about your business right now, the products you are making. You said ... in there about planet-friendly. It's very efficient, very economical in the sense that it's not like it's very planet-friendly, right? Let's talk about that a little bit. How did you come up with that concept, and what does it do exactly?

Belinda Lau:
Yeah, exactly. So, it's so interesting. We actually started just to look at the sustainability aspect of oral care. Like when you go in the dental office, you have to shrink wrap the entire room just to do like one one hygiene check, right? The gloves and the bibs and like all of that stuff. And so, we started from that aspect and we realized there's actually a lot of advancements in that kind of technology for materials, everything from biodegradable to like bio-based, which is sourced from like plants and things like that. So, I was very encouraged in 2019 to see a lot of this technology already existing, and then for us to find a way to apply it to the dental industry. So, I really like that. And then along the way, we interviewed, I want to say we interviewed 400 dental professionals and thousands of consumers through surveys and interviews. And people were just all saying, can we make, can we get the chemicals out of our oral care products? And everything is a chemical. And you, you and I are cyclical. So, we understand that the concept was in the beauty and the personal care industry. They were removing a lot of these sort of fragrances, artificial flavors, artificial scents, and things like that, dyes. When you sometimes you open a tube of kids' toothpaste, you see these little sparkles. Oh, that's a microplastic right there. And you want my kid to put that in their mouth.

Dr. Noel Liu:
What's that, right?

Belinda Lau:
We just started looking at some of this red toothpaste. Blue toothpaste. Is that really necessary? And we realized that you can't pronounce half of those things. Even I, as an engineer with a material science background, I didn't know what half of those things 90% of those things were. So, I said, can we create products with ingredients that you could actually pronounce? Which means that the consumer, and for, even for myself and for my children, I understand what's going into our bodies. And so, we started dissecting toothpaste teeth whitening products and then really just saying, what are the essentials? What does this thing need to do? And of course, Casey, my husband, from a dental perspective, he's, I want the tricalcium phosphate, I want hydroxyapatite, I want xylitol. These are all ingredients that have a lot of scientific background that we could apply. And specifically nano-hydroxyapatite, I love this product because it is the ultimate fluoride alternative. And I'm still a fan of fluoride. It's still the gold standard. If you ask the ADA, they'll tell you fluoride is the gold standard. There's a lot of data behind it, and I do believe topical fluoride is extremely effective, and I don't shy away from it. But what I love about nano hydroxyapatite at a 10% concentration, it has been proven to have the same level of remineralization as stannous fluoride.

Dr. Noel Liu:
Nice.

Belinda Lau:
And so when you look at that, what is this? What is hydroxyapatite? And as a material engineer and a biomedical engineer. I'll tell you, I geek out about this because hydroxyapatite is just what your bones and your teeth are naturally made of, right? So when you crush it up into a nano form and then you apply it on a paste to your teeth, it just replastered the surface of your enamel. And I didn't invent it. I'm not going to take credit for that. It was actually invented by NASA in the 1970s, because when these astronauts go into space for 3 or 4 months or more missions, the gravity makes them have bone loss, especially in their teeth. So, they're coming back with weakened teeth and weakened bones. And also, if you get a cavity in space, you still can't see a dentist in space. It may be coming in the next couple of years, maybe. Dr. Liu, you'll be the first. And you go to space and be the first space dentist, but you know, you can't see a dentist in space. And so, you know these astronauts.

Dr. Noel Liu:
It's crazy, nobody even thinks about those things.

Belinda Lau:
Nobody thinks about it. You get a cavity, you get a toothache in space, that's a bad trip. You're out there for years, potentially, so NASA invents a hydroxyapatite in a toothpaste form to help remineralize the teeth in the surface of the teeth. And some people on your podcast might be saying like, oh, well, how come I haven't heard about this ingredient in the US? And that's because a Japanese company in the 1980s bought the patent. And so, in Japan and Korea, it's been used for the last 40 years. It's wonderful. You go to Japan, and at least half of their toothpastes have hydroxyapatite in it. It's so wonderful. And so, that's why there's such a wealth of data behind it, because it's really been studied for a very long time. And so, we're one of the few companies in the US that actually have the 10% concentration, which is equivalent to the fluoride remineralization. And the benefit of the remineralization is actually it helps with sensitivity, super good for sensitivity, because it's really like a coat of armor for your teeth. And so, for some people, like myself, I've used a very specific brand of toothpaste that claims it was for sensitivity, and I used it for ten years. I'm not kidding. And I still had sensitivity, right? And when I switched over to nano-hydroxyapatite toothpaste, I found that my sensitivity went away in two weeks. So, I thought, okay, this is amazing. And when I found out it was completely biocompatible, my husband tells his patients, with our toothpaste, it's all natural, all food-grade ingredients, yet effective. It's so natural you could spread it on toast in the morning and then eat it for breakfast. Literally, you can ingest it and it's absolutely no issues. All our ingredients are food grade. It's actually technically pharmaceutical grade, which is a higher grade compared to food grade. But we always say food grade because that's something that people can.

Dr. Noel Liu:
Something people can understand and relate.

Belinda Lau:
Yeah, so that's really important because kids, especially as they swallow their toothpaste. And then you and I, whenever we brush our teeth, that toothpaste is going into our bloodstream through the gum line. So, that's very important to me to make sure that we have something that number one, is it effective? Does it actually work? So, check what, number two, is it safe? Is it safe? Is it good for us? And then number three, can we make this sustainable? So, all our products have to hit on these three pillars. And then we put some cute packaging and branding around it. You talked about our brand name is the word smile backwards. Those cute little hidden brand things is very personal to us. We try to do these things to really encourage people to enjoy the brushing experience, to want to brush their teeth, want to floss their teeth, and take care of their teeth. And then once they feel good about their health and all of that stuff, they really feel good about their place in the world. That's really our mission, is to make people healthier and reduce the waste. And when you do all that stuff, we feel like we'll have better outcomes as a society. And that's my macro dream for this little toothpaste company to help position everyone to feel better about themselves.

Dr. Noel Liu:
I love it, just the fact that you said it takes away sensitivity. I think that's just not only you, but with many other people.

Belinda Lau:
Yes.

Dr. Noel Liu:
So I think this is a huge plus.

Belinda Lau:
Yeah.

Dr. Noel Liu:
So now, is it, like...

Belinda Lau:
The focus of the products, initially.

Dr. Noel Liu:
Like a side effect, right?

Belinda Lau:
Yeah, it actually came out after. Well, we, obviously, we test all our products, but we, it's very hard to test for sensitivity. But our customers kept coming in and were like saying, man, my sensitivity is gone just in a few weeks. And we started looking into it. Yeah, we're like, it really does work. And so, the same thing with our teeth whitening strips, they're actually made for sensitive teeth. So, we actually won, ... Magazine named our teeth whitening strips the best teeth whitening strips for sensitive teeth because when you apply it it's got all these great ingredients and things like that, but you feel no sensitivity on your teeth even though we're using a 7% hydrogen peroxide, which is a pretty high concentrate for it at home. Not a professional, but at home, right, whitening products. So, that's where we really come and see. Hey, can we take what the industry standard is and then make it a little bit better, reduce the waste, clean up the ingredients a little bit, but give a better experience to the consumer so they feel good about what they're using?

Dr. Noel Liu:
That's awesome because when we talk about whitening, equal sensitivity.

Belinda Lau:
Yeah.

Dr. Noel Liu:
And you are saying your product is whitening, is for sensitivity.

Belinda Lau:
Yeah, yeah. And we always encourage people to use the hydroxyapatite toothpaste along with it to remineralize the teeth that hydroxyapatite is deposited white, white calcium to your teeth. So, your teeth actually appear to be whiter and smoother. It's really weird. Your teeth, the surface, your teeth feel more smooth. It's just like a funny byproduct, but it works. And so, then there's no way bacteria can stick if it's like sliding off your teeth.

Dr. Noel Liu:
After this podcast, I'm the first customer to go back and get one.

Belinda Lau:
Take a look, take a look. Yeah.

Dr. Noel Liu:
No, for sure, I love it. I'm sure. So, is it safe to say that those hydroxy those nano-hydroxyapatite crystals are a safe replacement for fluoride?

Belinda Lau:
Yeah, it's, I'm not saying that, but.

Dr. Noel Liu:
I mean, in terms of what it does, right?

Belinda Lau:
You have to use it at least a 10% concentration. Some toothpaste brands don't actually say their concentrations. So, you know, they've got the marketing amount. They sprinkle some in there, so just be aware. But for the most part, it's a wonderful product. And so, now we're exploring what happens if you use fluoride and hydroxyapatite. What happens then? So that's for another podcast. We're starting to see what happens. You get even more benefits by combining the two.

Dr. Noel Liu:
Excellent, excellent. Belinda here. Appreciate you coming in. Is there anything else you would like the audience to know about you or your product?

Belinda Lau:
I would just say the oral care industry is evolving right before our eyes. Five years ago, six years ago, when we started the business, there wasn't a lot of these technologies that were in the market. And so, I think with oral care, your toothbrush or your toothbrush brand, your toothpaste brand, people get very loyal to one brand, one type of product, and they just don't think they go into Target or CVS. They just grab that same thing they've been using for years. And I just would encourage people to start looking at their ingredients, their packaging, and really understanding, because we have the power as consumers with our dollars. So, really look at what is in your bathroom counter, what are your kids are using? And really think about how that impacts your health, and also how that may be impacting the planet. That's what I would encourage people to do. And if you want to explore our products, we're here. You can find us at ELIMS.co, which is smile backwards, and just Google us and you'll find us right there.

Dr. Noel Liu:
Yep. So, it's E L I M S.co. Is that right?

Belinda Lau:
Yes, exactly right.

Dr. Noel Liu:
Perfect, perfect. Thanks a lot, Belinda. This was an amazing story, and I think you have an amazing journey. You came from, where you came from, and where you're heading, and I can already see four years into it. You're in there for the long haul.

Belinda Lau:
Thank you, Dr. Liu. I appreciate you saying that, especially given your background. I really do appreciate that. And I really have enjoyed our talk today. So, thank you so much for having me.

Dr. Noel Liu:
No, absolutely. I enjoyed it myself. All right. We're going to land the plane here. Thanks a lot again. Everyone listening. Make sure to like and subscribe, and we will check you guys out on our next episode.

Dr. Noel Liu:
Thanks for tuning in to the Secure Dental Podcast. We hope you found today's podcast inspiring and useful to your practice and financial growth. For show notes, resources, and ways to stay engaged with us, visit us at NoelLiuDDS.com. That's N O E L L I U D D S.com.

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About Belinda Lau:

Belinda Lauist is the CEO and co-founder of ELIMS, a science-driven, sustainable oral care company on a mission to reimagine oral care with effective yet cleaning ingredients and planet-friendly design.

A former biomedical and materials science engineer, Belinda holds dual engineering degrees from Carnegie Mellon University and has over 20 years of experience developing life-saving medical devices like insulin pumps and spinal implants. She later earned her Executive MBA from UCLA Anderson, where the idea for ELIMS was born. Today, she leads ELIMS with a commitment to transparency, innovation, and sustainability—bringing her deep technical expertise to every product the brand creates.

Things You’ll Learn:

  • Purpose-driven entrepreneurship creates authentic impact when rooted in personal values and lived experience.
  • Vulnerable storytelling builds powerful human connections and inspires others.
  • Adversity fuels growth, transformation, and mission-led leadership.
  • Embracing cultural identity strengthens leadership and community impact.
  • Holistic wellness requires honoring the mind, body, and spirit for lasting change.

Resources:

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The Importance and Impact of a Fellowship Program in The World of Dentistry

Dr. Anabella Oquendo Ryan St. Germain, and Candy Tobar discuss the importance and impact of fellowship programs in dentistry, and highlight the importance of entrepreneurship, business acumen, communication, and high-performance habits in shaping well-rounded dentists.
Dr. Anabella Oquendo Ryan St. Germain, and Candy Tobar discuss the importance and impact of fellowship programs in dentistry, and highlight the importance of entrepreneurship, business acumen, communication, and high-performance habits in shaping well-rounded dentists.
Dr. Anabella Oquendo Ryan St. Germain, and Candy Tobar discuss the importance and impact of fellowship programs in dentistry, and highlight the importance of entrepreneurship, business acumen, communication, and high-performance habits in shaping well-rounded dentists.

Summary:

The fellowship programs at NYU College of Dentistry are transformative and provide students with both clinical skills and comprehensive leadership training.

In this episode, Dr. Anabella Oquendo, Assistant Dean for International Programs and Program Director of the Advanced Program for International Dentists and Aesthetic Dentistry, along with Ryan St. Germain, Executive Director, Development and Alumni Relations, and Candy Tobar, Alumni Relations, discuss the importance and impact of fellowship programs in dentistry. Dr. Oquendo shares her journey from international student to her current leadership role and the evolution of the fellowship program at NYU. The discussion spans the various fellowship specialties offered, including aesthetics, oral surgery, digital dentistry, and implant dentistry. The guests highlight the importance of entrepreneurship, business acumen, communication, and high-performance habits in shaping well-rounded dentists. Anabella and Ryan also address work-life balance challenges, especially regarding balancing the professional and personal lives. Moreover, Ryan and Candy speak about their work to explore the community and make others aware of the programs. Finally, Dr. Oquendo shares her vision for the future of the program, focusing on holistic health, leadership development, and technological advancements. 

Tune in and learn how these fellowships are shaping the future leaders of the dental profession!

Secure Dental_Anabella Oquendo & Candy Tobar & Ryan St. Germain: Audio automatically transcribed by Sonix

Secure Dental_Anabella Oquendo & Candy Tobar & Ryan St. Germain: this mp3 audio file was automatically transcribed by Sonix with the best speech-to-text algorithms. This transcript may contain errors.

Dr. Noel Liu:
Welcome to the Secure Dental Podcast. Through conversations with the brightest minds in the dental and business communities, we'll share practical tips you can use to scale your practice and create financial freedom for yourself and your family. My name is Dr. Noel Liu, CEO and Dentist at Secure Dental, and also co-founder of DentVia. I'm your host for the Secure Dental podcast, and I'm so glad you're joining in.

Dr. Noel Liu:
Hello, everyone. Welcome to another episode of our Secure Dental podcast, where we bring in many different talents from both inside and outside our dental industry. And today we are joined by none other than my alma mater from NYU College of Dentistry. We have special guests here, which I'm going to be naming in a little bit. But before we get started, just a quick shout out to our sponsor, DentVia. It's a dental virtual dental administration company that administered all the back-end staffing and all the back-end work. So with that being said, we're going to jump straight in because we do not want to miss any of this stuff that these guys are going to share with us. So starting this morning here we have Dr. Anabella Oquendo, assistant dean for international programs and program director of the Advanced Program for International Dentists and Aesthetic Dentistry. Now next we have Ryan St. Germain. This guy has been on our pod last time. He is like the back-end workhorse for the deans and the entire college; Executive Director, Development and Alumni Relations at NYU College of Dentistry. And now we got lastly, but not the least, Candy Tobar, my favorite. Candy, Alumni Relations at NYU College of Dentistry. And it's because of her that she got me to the school and got my relationship back with NYU College of Dentistry. So without further ado, we're going to pass the mic off to Dr. Anabella first. But before we do that, we just want to highlight about this podcast. So the title of this podcast is The Importance and Impact of a Fellowship Program in The World of Dentistry. And with that being said, Dr. Oquendo, let's start with you; just a brief background about you. And what does that title mean for you?

Anabella Oquendo:
Fantastic. First of all, I want to say thank you for having us here. It's such a pleasure. And I have to say, Candy, if you were the one that brought him back, thank you for that, because he's making really a big impact in the school and our program. So thank you for that one, Candy. And well, I'm happy to tell you, you want me to start about my role or where I'm coming from?

Dr. Noel Liu:
Let's start how you got into dentistry. And then, we'll slowly transition to that title of this podcast, right? Like the fellowship program and how we ended up over here. Like what got you into dentistry? First, let's start with that. Nice and easy.

Anabella Oquendo:
What got me to dentistry? Well, you know that I always wanted to be part of healthcare. Even as a kid, I used to go to hospitals or to my dental appointments and seeing the healthcare providers taking care of people, I felt a deep connection there. I knew I somehow I was going to be part of that. And as I refined my vision, I decided to go with dentistry. And I'm so passionate about dentistry. I think I made such a right decision. Right? It was the right choice. And I did my dentistry back in my country. I'm from Venezuela. And I practiced for about five years, but I kept dreaming of doing something bigger. Like I want to make a big change. I want to really make meaningful impact. So I packed those dreams, and I came to New York City. And I came to NYU College of Dentistry to make those dreams a reality. And I enrolled in the advanced program. It's now called Apa Advanced Clinical Fellowship for Aesthetic Dentistry. And I enrolled in this program. And it was not just about learning how to make beautiful smiles and restore the patient's confidence and joy; it was really about transforming life, including my own. And all of that was alongside the most fantastic mentors because if we had something here in NYU College of Dentistry is great mentors. And I learned back then the importance of a mentor is huge; having a mentor. Right? They really guide us, they shape us, they help us reach our full potential. And on the top of that, I also learned the importance of surrounding yourself with like-minded people, driven people to really be able to create big change. So in summary, my journey brought me to New York to NYU College of Dentistry, from being an international student to a faculty to program director of the program that gave me so much, and it was a way to give back to the students and give back to the dentistry, the community. And now I have a wider role, more like leadership as one of the deans of the school and the assistant dean for the international programs. And within that umbrella, do you want me to tell you what I do within the school now?

Dr. Noel Liu:
Yeah, absolutely. So how much time did you spend from the time when you were a student at NYU and then where are you now today? And then we can jump right into your role.

Anabella Oquendo:
That that's a good question. It was quite a journey. International student that was ... for two years, and right after I became a faculty. And after two years, three years after that, I became a program director of the study program. And it's almost four years now that I'm the assistant dean for the Office of International Programs.

Dr. Noel Liu:
Excellent. Excellent. Thank you. Thank you so much for sharing that. So what is your role currently now and how has it transpired like from what you did in the past and to what you're doing today?

Anabella Oquendo:
Okay. So I continue to be the director of the Apa Advanced Clinical Fellowship in Aesthetics. That's like my baby. I'm really focused on elevating the standards of that program and creating meaningful impact for both patients and students in the program, incorporating technology and always elevating what we do. No year is the same as the other one. There is always bigger, better, every year. And with the Dean role, I oversee now not just aesthetics, but all the advanced clinical fellowships. With that, we have the aesthetic program, digital dentistry, we have oral surgery, and our beloved Liu Advanced Clinical Fellowship for Implant Dentistry.

Dr. Noel Liu:
Love it.

Anabella Oquendo:
Thank you for everything you've done for that program. That program is excellent. It's two years, and they learn the prosthetics, and they learn the surgery. It's unbelievable program. And in part, it's because of you. So thank you for that one.

Dr. Noel Liu:
It's a team effort, and I love to be part of it. Absolutely.

Anabella Oquendo:
Great. And with that it's not just about aesthetics now. It's about touching every corner of our profession as I oversee all these different programs. And I made sure that the way we train our students and the way they learn is in an interdisciplinary approach. We have every corner of the profession among this program, so it's very comprehensive and very interdisciplinary. And the other piece that I do within the deanship is Global Outreach. So Global Outreach is a program where we bring care to communities in need, underserved communities. And at the same time, as we implement prevention systems, and we restore restores smiles, and we help people, at the same time, we're training the next leaders to take action and to lead with compassion. And we pass the baton, right? So this is also a beautiful program because it brings hope, and it makes a tangible difference to the people that need it the most. And whether it's international programs, advanced clinical fellowships, or global outreach, I always made sure that the education is exceptional, that we elevate dentistry, we elevate the life of our students and our patients, and we make meaningful impact, and always giving them and exposing them to great opportunities.

Dr. Noel Liu:
That's absolutely right, because from some of the students, feedback that we got was most of the times when they are actually doing a procedure, they are really into it, and they understand all from a research point of view, and they also understand from a practical point of view. So what this program is doing is it's creating the next generation of leaders and also in there, that's going to impact the world of dentistry. Which brings me back to this title here, right, of this podcast today: The Importance and Impact of a Fellowship in The World of Dentistry. From Ryan's perspective, what does that mean to you and how is the school preparing these students to go out there in the real world and get some of this leadership and like getting the whole gamut of what we're doing at NYU? How are they affecting dentistry as a whole?

Anabella Oquendo:
I'm particularly passionate about that poem, by the way, because forever, dentistry was all about the clinical skills that define us, right? The perfect margin. And it was all about being a clinician and the clinical skills. And honestly, to be successful in dentistry, that's just a part of the puzzle. We need to wear all these many hats. And one of the greatest things about our fellowship is that we do exceptional clinical training, incorporating technology and interdisciplinary approach. That's a guarantee; that's a given. You're going to get your clinical training. But we shape these well-rounded individuals so that they are capable of wearing all these many hats they need. So when it comes to leadership, big-time training, leading with purpose; business, to understand the business, how to run the business, what is that we do. Right now, we just launched, and actually, with the help of Ryan, I got connected to our entrepreneurial, Entrepreneurship Institute in the school, and I'm running a course for Lean Startup for the students. And we have workshops. We help them understand, find a problem, create a solution, what is your value proposition, and the Lean Startup concept. And they are creating amazing things. And we are conducting like a Shark Tank type of contest at the end, where they are going to present us all their ideas, all their products. And who knows? Maybe from then, they get a sponsor and they create something great. But that's a tiny example. So the leadership skill, the communication skills, even incorporating high-performance habits in their life, I'm very particular about that. Right? And that wellness aspect. We want to be healthy; your mind, your body; and all of that get connected. And that's what we're training. We're training these well-rounded individuals that are going to be the future leaders of the profession; all the heads they have to wear, not just the clinical hat.

Dr. Noel Liu:
That's awesome, I love it. And so jumping it to you, Ryan, from your perspective.

Ryan St. Germain:
Dr. Oquendo, obviously, as our leader in front of these students every day, her and her faculty and the amazing job they do, I think she's spot on. Our programs are so differentiated. And these fellowships are so differentiated not necessarily because of the hand skills they're learning. Right? If you're going to be an English major, you can be an English major at a community college, or you can be an English major at Harvard. It's still Shakespeare, right? Like the basics are going to be the basics, but what is that expertise and what is that global knowledge and impact and reach that you can have by going to that institution that is different, that I would argue is better, but that really has that commitment to having those demarcations of difference. And I think the leaning into leadership, the importance of mentorship, the community aspect, both domestically and certainly globally, make us comparable to no other institution of education within the world. And harder to argue, but certainly not within the country. And I think these programs and the opportunities that these students and our fellows are offered are incomparable. And then the compliments continue, because you still have to be then the type of student to take advantage, right? Just us offering the opportunities. Not enough, but identifying, and accepting, and admitting the correct student from the start has to lay that groundwork. Because if they're not self-identifying, either they already know it, or folks like Dr. Oquendo can see it in them. Sometimes, they don't know it yet, but we can draw it out of them and really help them develop into that full person so that they do have a fulfilling career, but that they have a fulfilling life because those are the people like yourself, Dr. Liu, that are able to come back and make an impact. If they don't have that completeness, wholeness of self, then they're not out in the world doing that. And I think that's something we're real proud of.

Dr. Noel Liu:
Well, that's great because there's these challenges when anybody, especially students, when we come out of school, when I say we meaning like my own self when I graduated, we are not so well-versed with startups; we are not so well-versed with entrepreneurship. And what we do is we start learning from the school of hard knocks. Right? Make mistakes, trial and error till you get it right. And sometimes, it's so devastating that we can't even get up. So what you've implemented in this program, I think it's tenfold. So with that being said, what was something that you found in students? Like did you see something in them, or did you hear feedbacks from past students that you wanted to get this implemented, this entrepreneurship, Dr. Oquendo?

Anabella Oquendo:
Okay. Several venues really. One is to see all the great things our alumni was doing. We have such a strong alumni network around the world, and they are becoming they're leaders in their countries. So one is to see the potential of our students, what they were achieving with our training here once they went out to the real world. That was one. And second, as I keep connecting the dots, when it comes to education, and incorporating all this well-rounded type of training and individual, I realized that entrepreneurship is one of them. It's not just being a leader; it's also understanding all these concepts. Even if they just want to open their practice, you know better than anybody, Dr. Liu, you need so much knowledge beyond the preparation of a margin or extracting a tooth, placing an implant. So I think that was the motivation there. And their success is always my success. And the fact that I was a student in the program give me a lot of insight, understanding how they feel, what the program did for me, and all the opportunities, all the doors that open up, and wanting to do the same for them, and feel that responsibility of giving back, I think is the reason why.

Dr. Noel Liu:
I love it. So let's dive a little bit into the fellowship program. How many different components are there, different specialties in this fellowship?

Anabella Oquendo:
Okay. We have four main programs. The aesthetic program. We have aesthetics focused on the restorative aspect, and aesthetics is the program where we do a lot of treatment planning; is that blueprint what is best for each patient and understanding all the specialties and understanding how we can collaborate to help the patient to get that ideal smile; not just from the beauty side of things, but also function, biology, health, all of that. So that's aesthetics. Then we have oral surgery. They focus more on the surgical aspect of placing implants and other type of surgeries. Then we have operative and digital dentistry. This is also a purely restorative program. And we have all the toys you can imagine in this world. Everything is done digitally, and is general dentistry; and all digital to a point that we are early adopters or of a mojo. Mojo is basically like a digital articulator, so the students can do everything digital from the beginning to the end. And then we have Loop, the Loop Advanced Clinical Fellowship in Implant Dentistry. That program is excellent. And I'm going to tell you why.

Dr. Noel Liu:
It's a great program.

Anabella Oquendo:
Excellent. Because you have both the Stewart, you're doing everything, the surgical part and also your restoring. That's why it's a two-year program. The training is very complete and very intense. And they do a lot of research. I know you mentioned research before, and they go out to different meetings. They present. We do a lot of public speaking in these programs. We teach them the art of storytelling and communication skills. So they spend the whole year learning how to do public speaking. And then we take them out. We expose them in different meetings to present.

Dr. Noel Liu:
That'd be great, because I have one of my interns from our organization that just joined the program as well. And I told her, Just be prepared. She's really introvert, really shy. And I was like, You will change. Just go with the program. And is this true that this is the only program that's two years? The rest of the fellowships are one year, right?

Anabella Oquendo:
Yes, implants is two years. The rest of them is a year program.

Dr. Noel Liu:
Good deal. So how has this fellowship program impacted dentists domestically? I know we keep calling it international. Is this something which, is it for a regular, I call it regular, like local?

Anabella Oquendo:
It's really, I really like, I'm going to say it's really transformative. These programs are transformative. And let me wear for a second my alumni hat. And as I said at the beginning, for me, it was really a transformation. From international student to one of the deans at NYU dentistry, it feels surreal to think of this journey, and I feel so much pride. And when I think about it, it's all about the institution. It's the power of this institution, all the support, all the opportunities, and the doors that open up. So really, I'm telling you this as an alumni based on my own experience. But when I see all the students is transformative. Whether you are domestic or you are international, the clinical training they get is excellent. You know that in our school we see a day thousand or thousand and 100 patients per day, a total of 300,000 patients. So imagine the amount of exposure they get. So the clinical training is top. We also incorporate a lot of technology the top of the top, right? So incorporating technology, always elevating standards. And as I said before, it's a must; that interdisciplinary and comprehensive approach to dentistry. We collaborate and we all learn from each other. But also, as I mentioned, it's not just that; it's creating and shaping these future leaders. That's also very impactful. When you graduate from these programs and you feel comfortable leading your staff, leading your office, interviewing people, communicating and understanding about business, being an entrepreneur, all of that, of course, makes a huge impact. And if you are an international student, that allows you to take all this knowledge and all this innovation back to your country and make a difference and an impact there. And we are so connected as an alumni, that you get support and help no matter where you are. As I said before, our alumni are doing wonderful things. And no matter what year, if you are one generation or the other one, what you do, your graduation was. The minute you connect to alum together, that's powerful. It's a lot of support. No matter where in the world you are. So as an international student, you also are able to bridge, you know, this global evolution and elevation of dentistry and bring all that back to your country and feel supported by all the networks that we can provide and we have all around the world.

Dr. Noel Liu:
So this program is for everybody, like even from United States, from international, they don't have to have a DDS degree. Correct?

Anabella Oquendo:
They do have to have a DD. They have to be dentists.

Dr. Noel Liu:
I mean. DDS from United States, that can be from anywhere in the world.

Anabella Oquendo:
Correct. You are correct. International dentists and domestic dentists, they come together in this program.

Dr. Noel Liu:
Perfect. So, Ryan and Candy, what are you guys doing in terms of exploring the community outside beyond New York? And what is it some of the steps that you guys are doing in terms of getting this program out and making people aware?

Ryan St. Germain:
Great question. And I think, again, to Dr. Oquendo's point and yours, Dr. Liu, you quipped, having met some of our grads and some of them that work with you now from specifically from the program, that their education and the curriculum that they go through puts them, what, 5 to 10 years into their career already for the amount of exposure and expertise. So even if you look at the program just as time condenser. Right? Can I go out and can I learn this in the school of hard knocks and make those mistakes and figure it out through the cases I might have in my practice over ten years? Absolutely. Or can I do it in a very systematized, no-error in it, and have really clean margins and do it in two years? A lot of people appreciate that efficiency to accelerate their career to that point. And so I think that's really what we're talking about when we're talking about the program to people on the domestic or international side, it's one of the best programs that really merges those two together. And I am a big proponent of those two then individuals, right, those two sides of the coin just make each other better, because their own educational experiences and clinical experiences have differed a little bit. I came from Spain and I learned it this way, and I had a faculty member mentor who really supported this approach. Okay, well, I learned it. And how does that come together? How do we find what the best practice is? And it's because there's more than one opinion at the table. And that diversity of thought I think, really improves it. For us, having identified folks like yourself for two of the programs, it really just added fuel to the fire, right? It's already a great program. And then we throw some jet fuel on there and can take it to new heights, which is great. And so we look for people that are interested in doing the program, and we look for people that maybe have done the program or can just appreciate what it is and support their educational experience, be it through funding for these students to go out and do more of that research, do more of that travel, or calling what it is, it's not inexpensive to do. It's not an inexpensive educational product to offer. So offsetting those costs this time may be particularly on the international side, to allow those folks to come have kind of the best educational experience they can, and lower that economic hurdle a little bit for them. You would agree, Candy?

Candy Tobar:
The only thing I would add to that, spot on, as always, Ryan, but I would say one of the reasons why I think we're very impassioned to speak about these programs, obviously, we have great leaders really running the ship, such as Dr. Oquendo and all of the directors and all of, some of the leaders that have done the program in the past, and just frankly, don't want to leave. That's the one thing that I've noticed about these programs is the people that you're meeting. I think that, I'm going to take it more to the social side of things. I'm not a dentist, like you guys are, but I see the effect that it has socially on these participants, these fellows that come. And every single one of them has noted, yes, it will transform you in a clinical way, but they have noted that they have met their friends for life, that they would have never had the opportunity to meet another dentist from Mexico, from Spain, from Italy, all while doing it at the same time. You're gaining these international friends for life. They have noted that this fellowship not just transformed them on the clinical side, but as a person giving them life experience, being able to live in New York City, they tell me that they will literally never forget this time in their life, and that if they could do it back to back, they would, because they absolutely fell in love with the entire experience. So yes, to what Ryan is saying, absolutely. We're impassioned to reach out because there's such great programs and they're transformative. But I think if we didn't see such a positive review from each person doing the program, we wouldn't do that so easily. It's easy for us to reach out to people and say, Hey, have you learned about this fellowship that NYU is doing? This is a really fun thing for you to consider doing 3 or 4 years out from school. Maybe you're just turning the patient, every patient wheel and you know you need a revamp. You need a new, fresh experience. I think this is a really great opportunity for domestic and international dentists to really rejuvenate their interest in dentistry, gain international friendships, and really just impact their entire lives here, forward. That people have noted that they will never regret doing this program. And so reaching out with such a positive note, we wouldn't have been able to do that if it wasn't such a great experience for them. So that's the only thing I would add is that everybody is absolutely in love with this program.

Dr. Noel Liu:
So I can definitely attest to that, because last week when we had The Midwinter in Chicago, I think one of the fellows from the implant program, he hit me up and he's like, Hey, doc, I'm going to be in Chicago along with us. There are about ten other people, And we are from the athletic program and from the implant program. So I was like, What are you guys doing here? Then he was like, Oh, we're just doing a presentation at the Swiss hotel or something. And they wanted to meet up, but unfortunately I couldn't meet up with them because I was in Tennessee doing our grand opening at that time. So the good part was we had one of the fellows that was actually working with us in our Chicago location, they all met up. And like you said, Candy, like friendship, the bonding. I mean, these guys just went out that night. They met up, and it was, they had a fun time and great time. And that's something to say because in those two years, they just get that bonding with each other, right? And they don't want to leave, like you said. So I can definitely attest to that. There were like, all ten of them, they showed up, and they all had a good time in Chicago. So one other thing from this program, one of our associates is from the implant program too, the good side effect is after completion of two years in this program, they are allowed to apply for licensure in about 14 states, and that has opened opportunities and opened up doors for many of them who are actually contemplating like, Hey, should I do the advanced standing? Should I go to another school? Should I do a restorative at UCLA, or should I do this? And I've noticed, like many of the people who are actually passionate about implants, to go with this program. So the good part is we can get the license. And the better part is, once we get licensed in 1 or 2 states, automatically, they open up more doors for other states. And then after five years, they open up doors for almost every state. So I think this is a really good side effect, I would call it, out of this fellowship program. I'm not sure if you guys were aware of it or not, but, you know, just something I wanted to share.

Candy Tobar:
Opening doors is the name of the game. And if this program not just gave you this invaluable lesson and clinical training, but it's also opening doors for you thereafter, I don't see how much more better it could get than that.

Dr. Noel Liu:
100%. It's an opportunity, right? So we talked about this program here. What is your ambition? What is your goal there, Dr. Oquendo, specifically for your, what's your vision of this fellowship program as in the next one year, in the next five years?

Anabella Oquendo:
Okay. I want to really keep working on connecting the dots. Right? There is one, in particular, that I think is going to be my next fight, and is bringing the mouth back into the body, right? We need to stop looking at ourselves as teeth doctors, but more like oral health physician,s feeling empowered and empowering our students to educate the patients about nutrition, sleep quality, airway, inflammation in the mouth, the correlation of that inflammation and the microbiome with systemic disease like cardiovascular disease, diabetes. ..., we need to bring the mouth back into the body, right? And empower people. And instead of being or being part of a reactive model, more of an inclusive collaboration and holistic approach, where we work with other health care providers to elevate the health of our patients, the whole well-being; we need to be part of that. So that's one of the dots. The second dot I want to keep connecting, as I mentioned, the fact that as dentists, we are, is not just about being a clinician. It's a big deal. It's part, of course, what we need to train students on. But that leadership aspect, that well-rounded individual, keep working on it. I want to keep crafting my experiences, exceptional experiences for them to really incorporate the high-performance habits, all of that in their life, to have a balanced life. It's not just the hard skills; it's the soft skills as well. So, I want to keep connecting the dots in that area. And the third one, I would say technology is rapid. It's accelerated. And I want to embrace technology. And we understand that it's here to help us to be more efficient, to be more predictable. But it's never going to replace the human, right, and the doctor. It's just helping us elevate what we do, and we have to embrace it. We have to understand it. And it's not here to help the ones that are not good at understanding the fundamentals. It's just here to help the ones that are doing the homework and understand the fundamentals. There is a misconception there. Some people say, Oh, technology will get it done for me. No, that's not how it works. So that will be my third, let's say ambition, let's call it ambition, is to continue to incorporate technology and understand how technology AI is here to help us elevate the industry and elevate the life of our students and our patients.

Dr. Noel Liu:
You know, you're so true because a lot of people are actually afraid of AI that's going to replace them. The actual war is not going to be replacement; that's going to be who can use them and utilize them and who's going to be good at using them. So I think that's where the whole game will be. And I love the fact that you said embrace technology, because this is one of those aspects where I feel like if you are not caught up with technology and with the current dynamics of where we're heading in terms of like digital dentistry, we're going to be left behind. And that's the honest truth. So I love that from the clinical side hear from you. The same question for Ryan. I know you have, you wear a lot of hats in the college, right? From the fellowship aspectm, what is your vision for the next one year and the next five years; from the back-end stage, like from the relationship side?

Ryan St. Germain:
Sure, a lot of our role is then support, right? Because we take our cues from Dr. Oquendo and her team and her faculty, and what do we need. And that trickles bottom up. What do the students need, right? What are they identifying on there. So I think if Candy and I had a dream wish list for the next 1 to 5 years, we have very happily named two of the fellowships. We'd love to see a champion come in for the other two. And that would be the Digital Dentistry Advanced Clinical Fellow as well as the oral surgery one. And then for me, the wonderful exclamation point on it. So great. We've named those two. Let's say we name one in the next year. I'll put the other one before the next fifth. I really think the economic barrier and hurdle, specifically for international. Now you could argue the domestic pay the same tuition. So it's not easy for them either. But the economics are really there. Right? Like you can make an informed decision to say, I'm going to increase my compensation and what I'll be earning in a much quicker way. But how can we attract those students that we know would make wonderfully leveraged ripple effect impact in their own communities, bringing these skills and talents back to them, wherever that might be from? And how can we get them here and remove that barrier to entry? What sort of endowed funding can we put into place to say one student a year will be able to take from X community or Y region and really put them in? So instead of having a brain drain and an exodus out of those communities, how many other countries and communities can we help and really plant an NYU flag? I think we have a little bit of responsibility. If we're going to be the best product around, we shouldn't be an unattainable goal for anyone. And we should really work on creating pathways for people to get there. And I think that's something people can get behind.

Dr. Noel Liu:
Love it. Love it. You're right. Because, and I think you are absolutely right, because for many of the international students, it's all of this economy of scale. And like you said, it's not inexpensive. So how do they go about doing it? So I think one of the sort of help would be like the scholarship programs, right? And what else does a school do in terms of getting these students in with financial. Is there any other pathway for them, like let's say, student loans or any of that other stuff which they can look into?

Ryan St. Germain:
For domestic students, yes. Banks are very willing to lend to dental students. Not that dental students are always so enamored with the idea of taking those loans, but banks are very willing to do so because the default rates are basically zero, which at least is a little bit of solace for those dental students taking on those loans because they are paying them back, or the banks wouldn't be so willing to lend. For international, that's not really the case. There aren't what we think of as traditional student loans available to them in the same way; those are really personal or private loans. Obviously, those carry different interest rates. So the economics just really change for them. So the importance of scholarship availability is then increased for them. And I think the larger and more successful our program, the easier it is for us to be in a position to do so. You need to do good by doing well. And I think that's part of one of your own lectures. When you come in and talk to our d-1s, our success then allows us the flexibility to offer that. So I think we're on a mission to be more and most successful in those areas. But I think part of that is that philanthropic aspect to it, both from external, where we're looking for the support and internally, is our mission to then give that.

Dr. Noel Liu:
Excellent, excellent. I think there are many options where people can explore. It's just a matter of making up their mind and getting into the program. And once when you decide, I always believe, once we decide, good things happen. So last question for you, Dr. Oquendo. You are a very busy woman, right? And you do a lot. How do you balance your personal life, work life? What are some of the good and the bad and some of the challenges that you face? And I did learn that you are a mother of a twins. So that's awesome, I love it. How do you take work life and what do you how do you juggle those two, as a mom and as a professional?

Anabella Oquendo:
It's definitely a difficult one. Such an important one. Right? You need a balance. We definitely need a balance, and we have to be intentional about it. That's the trick. You have to be intentional, right? And it's not just about time management. It's about mind management. And I'm a big believer of high-performance habits because they do help you manage a little bit your all the responsibilities. And I'm passionate not just about my work. And of course, I dedicate a lot of my time to improving the programs and education. But it's also about, as you said, my daughters. They are my biggest source of inspiration. And I like to make sure that I'm a role model for them and I allocate enough time, quality time. It's not just time. That's another trick, right? It's not just allocating the time; it's that quality time. You have to be present. You have to be there for them and support them. And that's, honestly, what keeps me grounded, right? What give me purpose is that guidance, that role model to my daughters. And you need to have also time for your habits, your friends. And I love reading. I love self-growth. So I allocate also. I'm very systematic. I think you have to be systematic. Some of my friends joke and say, Your life is like a schedule, but it's the only way that you could be that efficient, right, and that intentional. So I allocate time also for reading. That's one of my hobbies. I love reading, but reading for learning self growth. I read a lot about leader leadership. I always aspire to be the best leader I can for my teams, my admin teams here, my faculties, and my students. So I bring that knowledge. And that reading and that hobby of learning and self-growth give me ideas to craft new experiences for the program and the students, and also wellness. I'm afraid with wellness, and I don't see it as a homework. I approach it with curiosity and joy, with trying to have a balanced mind and a balanced body. And again, being intentional: have a schedule. This is when I'm exercising, and I'm intentional about what I eat, and trying to teach all of that to my daughters. And last, I need to have time to travel. It's part of the deal. Traveling is a hobby for me. Being exposed to new cultures and a different perspective; it gives you so much in building those memories. So I advocate traveling for family trips; friends, to see my friends; and also for work. I do travel a lot in this role. Yeah. I think you need to be systematic. Yeah. You know how hard it is, right?

Dr. Noel Liu:
Absolutely. I'll give it to you for doing that. And also, the other lady in the room is Candy. I mean, she's also got a little one, just about my littlest, almost the same age as my little one. Ryan, sorry, guys. In this room, they don't really have any empathy for us. Okay, so. And one thing I love about Candy is: when she goes out with her family and she's spending family time or personal time, she's also making relationships. And that is something which I see in you too, Dr. Oquendo. You always have this work, but then you're also thinking about family. But then when you're in family, you're also thinking about work. So you're like doing, juggling both. And I see that even with my wife. So I've noticed that this is, I think, the female power. But for us guys, we are always just focused on one thing, right? We're just at work and we're at work. At home, we're at home, but we are also doing work. So we don't balance life as good. I don't know about you, Ryan. That's my experience. If you have something to say, definitely chime in.

Ryan St. Germain:
No, but my wife is better at everything than I am. Hard stop. There's not enough I have to make a qualifier for that.

Candy Tobar:
You trained her well.

Ryan St. Germain:
She's better at life than I am. But without her, I would be very poor at it.

Dr. Noel Liu:
No, absolutely.

Candy Tobar:
I think of the videos that have gone viral that me and my husband constantly, that's our love language, is sending each other reels and funny little stories that we find online that are so pertinent. And there's one circling around about the differences between mentally a man and a woman. And here's what a woman thinks about all-day long. While she might be sitting there on her phone, but she's scheduling birthday parties; I have to order this; I have to take; I have to book this appointment; I have to. It's constantly, wheels are turning. You're always thinking about what needs to be done next. And then they cut to a man on what they're thinking. And he's thinking about, like, a sandwich, right? Nothing else. And that's like the difference. Like it's probably a little too vague, but I laugh at the differences between the two because we're just hardwired different. We do constantly, our mental load, it's a constant wheel of what needs to get done, and I think that's why men and women, we tend to, you know, be pretty balanced and we both accomplish different things. It's not that your wife is better, Ryan; it's just that we operate in different ways, and without each other, we wouldn't be balanced out, right?

Dr. Noel Liu:
Oh, 100%. I just wanted to shine this a little bit on the human aspect, because it takes successful people in their personal lives to run successful professional lives. And since we are talking about this program, this whole gamut, it all comes as one package. It's not like one or the other. So, if someone is really successful at their personal life, and that's how we look at our team members. If you got your personal life in order, your work life is in order. And that's one of the things that I carry around that kind of goes across goes vice versa. So I love the fact that how you guys mingle around and what do you do to juggle day-to-day activities because it's a lot. It's a lot, especially with the university and the programs and everything that you do. So I really appreciate you guys for doing all that. So that's huge.

Candy Tobar:
I think we all love what we do, and I think that perpetuates the success. We're really passionate about holding our own within our own roles. I think we all play different roles.

Dr. Noel Liu:
Exactly.

Candy Tobar:
And you're right, I love what you just said about balancing your personal life. I think, yeah, you have to set a good foundation in every aspect of your life. If not, it bleeds into the other. Right? You can tell when someone's not happy in their home life. You can tell when somebody's not happy in their career achievements. Bleeds into each other and you bring it home with you or vice versa. So yeah, I think it's your due diligence in life is to organise your family, your schedule. I love what Anabella said about your mental wellness, your physical wellness. Always find time for yourself. And then it inspires people around you. My daughter, who is four, she says, like, Mommy, go into exercise. Because she knows that's part of it, should be part of life. You should learn that a working mother, a mother who takes care of herself physically and mentally, all of that is part of the deal. And I think one thing we're all very good at in this room is covering every single base so that the people around us are lifted by us.

Dr. Noel Liu:
Absolutely. So before we land the plane here, Ryan, how does someone learn more about the program? Is there a way they can shadow someone, or maybe, like, just have a conversation with someone just to see what's inside of each of those four fellowship programs?

Ryan St. Germain:
For interested applicants, that's really a question for Dr. Oquendo. And she has a fantastic team over there in the clinic that I'm sure would be happy to hear from them, but I don't want to assign who for which if she'd like to take that.

Dr. Noel Liu:
Perfect.

Anabella Oquendo:
Okay, so yeah, the team is fantastic really. At the end of the day, we all know it's all about the people, right? And everybody is so welcoming. So it's super easy to reach out to us. I would say one is our website, the school website, it's listed under Education: Advanced Clinical Fellowships. We also do a lot of Instagram, so they can follow us on Instagram. And even my personal Instagram, I'm happy to respond to any messages and guide you through the right person. And we do shadows. So for students that want to see it before even think really applying, we let them come, look at what we do, meet with the other fellows, talk to them, talk to the faculty. So that we also do. And it's very helpful for them to make a decision and to understand what they are getting into it. So I would say Instagram is wonderful. Our website is fantastic. We are on there, listed under Education, and any member of my team will be so helpful and will guide anybody super well. And it's super easy.

Dr. Noel Liu:
I'll add one more.

Anabella Oquendo:
Yeah.

Dr. Noel Liu:
Pass aluminized.

Ryan St. Germain:
We have no better advertising out in the world, right?

Dr. Noel Liu:
You have all the advertisement.

Anabella Oquendo:
The ambassadors of the program.

Dr. Noel Liu:
Ambassadors. I like that. Ambassadors.

Anabella Oquendo:
Yes. Any alumni will be able to talk about the programs and guide anybody through the process of application and what to expect; a day in the life of a student here.

Dr. Noel Liu:
And with that being said, we are going to be doing a shoot one day coming in May, and we'll be doing a shoot about a fellow, right, from the Liu implants, and we're going to be following them and doing exactly what is a day look like for them, from morning till the time they check out, and they go to their homes.

Anabella Oquendo:
Yeah. It's going to be fantastic. Very visual.

Dr. Noel Liu:
I'm really looking forward.

Anabella Oquendo:
Yes. Me too.

Dr. Noel Liu:
Team, any last minute statements?

Anabella Oquendo:
I just want to say thank you for having us. Thank you so much.

Dr. Noel Liu:
No, actually, thank you guys for coming on. It was a work to get all of us together. Right?? So thank you. Appreciate it.

Ryan St. Germain:
It is our pleasure, and we can't wait to see you. And what, just like six weeks or so?

Dr. Noel Liu:
Six weeks? Absolutely.

Ryan St. Germain:
Day in the life is going to be fantastic. And so I hope your viewers and such and listeners are really going to enjoy that too, because seeing behind the curtain is always an interesting way to go about it, and really seeing the rigor that these folks go through and the dedication and passion they have, again, they are the best advertising we could do. So you want people to be interested in the program, you want people to contribute to the program to show them who's in it. We can't tell their story nearly as well, and every one of them is just really incredibly impressive. So thank you for the opportunity to get that word out there.

Dr. Noel Liu:
Well, thank you very much. We're going to land the plane here. Again, NYU College of Dentistry. Their website has all the information about the fellowship program as well as the regular DDS program. So, anytime anyone have any questions, feel free to reach out. We're going to land the plane here. And thank you very much, guys, for coming on. It was a pure pleasure and an honor to have you guys all at the same time.

Anabella Oquendo:
Likewise.

Ryan St. Germain:
Thank you.

Candy Tobar:
Thank you.

Dr. Noel Liu:
All righty.

Candy Tobar:
Take care, guys.

Dr. Noel Liu:
All right. Take care.

Candy Tobar:
Thank you so much.

Dr. Noel Liu:
Take care, doc. I'll see you soon.

Candy Tobar:
I'll see you soon. Bye bye.

Dr. Noel Liu:
Thanks for tuning into the Secure Dental Podcast. We hope you found today's podcast inspiring and useful to your practice and financial growth. For show notes, resources, and ways to stay engaged with us, visit us at NOELLIUDDS.com. That's N O E L L I U D D S.com.

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About Dr. Anabella Oquendo:

Dr. Anabella Oquendo Parilli is the Assistant Dean for International Programs and Program Director of the Advanced Program for International Dentists in Esthetic Dentistry at New York University College of Dentistry. A passionate educator and clinician, Dr. Oquendo is dedicated to shaping the next generation of dental leaders and advancing the field of esthetic dentistry. As Assistant Dean since December 2022, she oversees international programs, working to elevate the educational experience for students from around the world and fostering global outreach initiatives. She has been the Program Director of the Advanced Program for International Dentists since 2014, where she implements interdisciplinary and comprehensive training, emphasizing the importance of blending clinical skills with leadership, business acumen, and holistic health perspectives.

Dr. Oquendo also maintains a practice at NYU Dental Faculty Practice, specializing in esthetic and interdisciplinary dentistry. She earned her dental degree from Universidad Central de Venezuela and completed the Advanced Program for International Dentists in Esthetic Dentistry at NYU. Driven by a commitment to excellence and a vision for the future of dentistry, Dr. Oquendo is a highly respected leader in the field, actively involved in transforming lives through education and patient care. She is passionate about bringing the mouth back into the body and promoting a comprehensive approach to health.

About Candy Tobar:

Candy Tobar is a dedicated professional in Development and Alumni Relations at New York University – College of Dentistry, where she has served since March 2020. In her role as a Major Gifts Officer, Candy contributes her strong work ethic, interpersonal skills, and commitment to results to connect with alumni and foster philanthropic support for the College’s mission. She helps to cultivate relationships, playing a vital role in advancing key initiatives, including the successful Advanced Clinical Fellowship programs highlighted in the Secure Dental Podcast.

Prior to joining NYU, Candy honed her skills in diverse roles across the fashion and retail industries. She served as an Account Executive at Kenneth Cole Productions and a Senior Merchandise Analyst at Steve Madden. At Global Brands Group (Calvin Klein), Candy managed a significant sales portfolio and partnered with major retail stores to optimize sales success. Her earlier experience in sales administration at The Frye Company equipped her with a strong foundation in customer relations and operational efficiency. Candy holds a Bachelor’s degree in Psychology and Spanish from SUNY Albany. Known for her collaborative spirit and commitment to excellence, Candy is passionate about fostering community and driving positive outcomes.


About Ryan St. Germain:

Ryan St. Germain is the Executive Director of Development & Alumni Relations at NYU College of Dentistry, where he has dedicated over eight years to fostering philanthropic support and strengthening community engagement. In this role since December 2019, Ryan has led efforts to cultivate relationships with alumni, donors, and friends of the College, securing vital resources for cutting-edge research, innovative educational programs (including the Advanced Clinical Fellowship programs), and impactful global outreach initiatives. He plays a key role in connecting passionate individuals with opportunities to advance dental education and improve oral health outcomes worldwide.

Prior to his current position, Ryan served as Senior Director of Development & Alumni Relations at NYU College of Dentistry. He also held development roles at Northwestern University and Fordham University, demonstrating a consistent commitment to advancing educational institutions. Ryan holds an MBA in Finance and a Master’s degree in Sociology from Fordham University, complemented by a BA in Sociology, further solidifying his expertise in strategic philanthropy and community building. Driven by a passion for education and a talent for fostering meaningful connections, Ryan is dedicated to empowering the next generation of dental professionals.


Things You’ll Learn:

  • Fellowship programs offer exceptional clinical training and incorporate technology to elevate the standards of practice, as well as an interdisciplinary approach to ensure a comprehensive understanding of dentistry. These advanced programs shape well-rounded individuals with leadership skills, business acumen, and high-performance habits, enabling them to lead with purpose and excel in their careers.
  • The strength of NYU’s fellowship lies in its ability to merge international and domestic perspectives, enriching the educational experience and creating a more diverse understanding of best practices. This collaborative environment fosters friendships and broadens the participants’ horizons, ensuring the fellows have friends for life and international friendships.
  • Entrepreneurship education is vital for dentists, and fellows should learn to address the business aspects of running a practice. By understanding problem-solving, value propositions, and lean startup principles, fellows can innovate and create their path within the field.
  • There is a growing importance of integrating oral health with overall health, empowering dentists to educate patients about nutrition, sleep quality, and the systemic connections of oral inflammation. This holistic approach necessitates collaboration with other healthcare providers to elevate the well-being of patients.
  • Scholarship programs and philanthropic efforts are essential to break down economic barriers and attract diverse talent to dental fellowship programs. Financial assistance enables outstanding students from around the world to pursue advanced education, thereby expanding the global reach and influence of these programs.

Resources:

  • Connect with and follow Anabella Oquendo on LinkedIn and Instagram.
  • Follow and connect with Candy Tobar on LinkedIn and Instagram.
  • Connect with and follow Ryan St. Germain on LinkedIn. 
  • Listen to Candy’s and Ryan’s previous interview on our podcast here.
  • Learn about the Advanced Clinical Fellowship Programs on their website and Instagram.
  • Check out the Liu Advanced Clinical Fellowship in Implant Dentistry on Instagram.
  • Find out more about the Apa Advanced Clinical Fellowship in Aesthetic Dentistry on Instagram.
Categories
Podcast Uncategorized

The Hidden Cost of Perfectionism: How to Reclaim Joy in Dentistry

Podcast Cover Photo with Dr. Noel Liu, DDS titled "Reclaim Your Joy"
Podcast Cover Photo with Dr. Noel Liu, DDS titled "Reclaim Your Joy"
Podcast Cover Photo with Dr. Noel Liu, DDS titled "Reclaim Your Joy"

Summary:

Burnout can manifest as both physical symptoms and emotional exhaustion, making it crucial to recognize and address it early on.

In this episode, Dr. Eric Recker, Owner and CEO of Win The Now,  shares his personal journey through burnout and how he overcame it. Dr. Recker recounts his early experiences of feeling inadequate, which fueled a relentless drive for perfection in his career and personal life. This drive eventually led to severe burnout, characterized by physical symptoms and emotional exhaustion. After nearly selling his dental practice to escape the stress, Dr. Recker realized that running away wouldn’t solve the problem. Instead, he made significant changes, including selling half of his practice, reducing his workdays, and focusing on coaching and speaking about burnout and mindset. Throughout the interview, Eric emphasizes the importance of recognizing the signs of burnout, such as a lack of joy in daily activities and a sense of life becoming monotonous. He discusses how mindset and small, significant changes in daily routines can help combat burnout. Finally, Eric explains why he now dedicates part of his time to coaching other dentists, helping them identify the root causes of their burnout and develop strategies to regain control and find fulfillment in their lives.

Tune in and learn why seeking help from a coach or mentor can provide the guidance and support needed to navigate through burnout!

Secure Dental-Eric Recker.mp3: Audio automatically transcribed by Sonix

Secure Dental-Eric Recker.mp3: this mp3 audio file was automatically transcribed by Sonix with the best speech-to-text algorithms. This transcript may contain errors.

Dr. Noel Liu:
Welcome to the Secure Dental Podcast. Through conversations with the brightest minds in the dental and business communities, we'll share practical tips you can use to scale your practice and create financial freedom for yourself and your family. My name is Dr. Noel Liu, CEO and Dentist at Secure Dental, and also co-founder of DentVia. I'm your host for the Secure Dental podcast, and I'm so glad you're joining in.

Dr. Noel Liu:
Hello. Hey, welcome everyone back to our Secure Dental podcast, where we bring in many different talents from both inside and outside our dental industry. Today we have a very, very special guest, Dr. Eric Recker. And Dr. Recker is practicing Dentist in Iowa. So before we dive into his details and his great story, I would just like to give a shout-out to my sponsor, which is DentVia. DentVia is a virtual dental assisting company that, you know, does all the back-end stuff, and they basically help the front desk office manager to take care of calls, scheduling, you know, like marketing leads and all that good stuff, all the front desk people they hate to do. So they do all the back end stuff and they help with our front staff. So definitely visit them at www.DentVia..com. That's DentVia.com. Now, let's get to the show. So I got Dr. Recker here. He is a motivational speaker, a dentist that practices in Iowa, and he has a great, great story to share with us. I'm not even going to try the intro. I will just let Dr. Recker go ahead and introduce himself, and just tell us a little bit about his history and how he got started. So, Dr. Recker, the floor is all yours.

Eric Recker:
Thank you so much for having me, Dr. Liu. I'm really excited to be here today. I can tell you the short version of my story. It'll only take about four hours. And so we'll just do that, and by then everybody will be well asleep and we'll have four episodes recorded, so we'll be all set. Right? I've been a practicing dentist for 22 years. So I graduated in 2002 from University of Iowa. But I have to go back way farther than that. So when I was in second and third grade, I was a little rough around the edges. I was a little husky, you could say. I was one of the youngest people in my class and where I grew up in central Iowa, recess kickball was life in the early 80s. And so at recess, we would go out and we'd form teams and we'd play kickball. Well, I was told that I wasn't good enough to play. It would have been one thing if I was picked last. But the problem was, I was told that I wasn't even good enough. So I would have to sit there and watch the people in my class play kickball while I stood on the sidelines. Well, after this happened enough, I remember steaming on the sidelines saying, I am going to be so good at everything I ever do in my life that no one's ever not going to pick me. Well, guess what that led to? It led to burnout, and it led to burnout in a huge, huge way. So what happened is everything in my life was not good enough. It wasn't good enough that I was in the top 15 in my dental class. I had to be in the top ten. It wasn't good enough that my practice was cranking. It had to crank more. It wasn't good enough that I was starting to run. I had to do more than that. So I went all the way through Ironman triathlon, mountain climbing; all this kind of stuff. And what it really led to was burnout. So pretty serious burnout. I had three what I would consider big seasons of burnout, where I had chest pain, heart palpitations, panic attacks, all that stuff, which ultimately led me to nearly selling my dental practice and walking away. The problem with that is that I would have just been running away from the burnout. And so when that fell through, I had to figure out what I really wanted to do with life. That was in 2021. And now at this point, I now have a partner in my dental practice. I've sold half of my practice, so are 50 over 50 partners. I see patients three days a week, and on the other days I coach and speak to people and groups about mindset, burnout, self-care, self-awareness, all of those kinds of things. So I'm in a great space right now, but it's been quite a road to get here.

Dr. Noel Liu:
That's such an amazing story. So how old were you when you first realize that okay, they keep saying, I'm not good enough; what I got to do, I got to be the best? Like, what was the age frame?

Eric Recker:
So the first time that I said that out loud and it's something that was, I guess, hidden in my subconscious somewhere, because I only remembered it a couple of years ago. But it started in elementary school when I was standing there saying on the recess playground, believing that I wasn't good enough. And I just, I heard those words all the time. Anytime I would get a grade back that wasn't as good as I had hoped it would be: You are not good enough. Anytime I wouldn't be able, anytime I wasn't as good athletically as I wanted to be: You are not good enough. And I just heard it, and I heard it, and I heard it. And I think so many of us have those things that were said over us when we were younger that impact the way we live our lives and the way we do our daily living. And those things need to be identified, and they need to be retired and they need to be replaced with something that's much more productive.

Dr. Noel Liu:
So would you say that was an emotion that actually got you fired up? And if that was the emotion that got you fired up, I mean, how did you figure out that was defined as a burnout?

Eric Recker:
Yeah. So it took a long time. I had to go through the burnout. And what would happen is every time I would get burned out, I felt like something was missing. So I'm obviously, doing something wrong. Something's missing in my life, so I have to add something. Well, that was part of the problem. I kept adding more and more things. So my first real season of burnout, the one that I really, now, in retrospect, I know that's what it was, I was buying my dental practice from my father. I was building a new clinic. I was coaching both of my kids in soccer. I was on five different boards. And I was training for two Ironman triathlons. I mean, that's crazy, right? Who does that? That is way, way, way too much. But like the frog that gets put in the water and then the heat is turned up, I didn't realize until it was too much. So what I've realized is when we really get to that burnout space, oftentimes we have to look at everything that we have going on in our lives, and instead of adding something else, something needs to go. So what are all the things that are going on in our lives, and how can we look at all of those objectively and say, Okay, might feel like something's missing, but really something probably needs to go. And that's kind of where I got to.

Dr. Noel Liu:
So when you speak to people and when you identify their issue, or they ask you to help them identify, what are some of the traits or some of those things or patterns that I would say that you look out for, like if somebody is about to enter like, you know, burn out phase?

Eric Recker:
Yeah. One of the things that I've definitely noticed, and it was very true in my life as well, now that I look back on it, is life just kind of seemed gray. It didn't seem like there was a lot of color in life. A lot of the things that gave me a lot of joy weren't giving me joy during that season. I was kind of pulling back from things. I was feeling very introspective with my thoughts. I wasn't doing a great job communicating with my wife. I was holding it, trying to hold it all together and holding it all in. So if the things that used to excite you aren't exciting you anymore, what's going on with that? We probably need to pull the thread on that. One of the examples that I like to use for this is the movie: The Secret Life of Walter Mitty. We're big movie fans at our house, and what happens in this movie is the main character, Walter, lives a very grey existence, and the cinematography in the movie is masterful. And it just shows everything's grey, it's dull, it's monotone. He's not living a very exciting life, but as the movie goes on, the colors start to appear, adventure starts to appear, he starts stepping into exciting things and his life goes from grey to extremely vibrant. So noticing the grayness, like you wake up every day and it just feels the same. You go to work with kind of a low level or a high level angst towards your job. You can't get excited about things. You also maybe don't get as bummed about things. You're just kind of hanging out in that middle space, and that's a good reason to start sounding an alarm.

Dr. Noel Liu:
How much of it do you feel, its internal mindset, and how much do you feel like it's external?

Eric Recker:
Yeah, so I think a lot of it, a lot of it is internal. It really is. We get into these patterns, and Einstein defined insanity as doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Whether that quote is actually his or not, doesn't really matter. But we keep doing the same thing over and over again and expect things to change. So if something's not working, how can we switch that up? What can we add? What's a little thing that we can add to kind of disrupt the routine? Sometimes it's as much as changing our drive home from work. Maybe it only takes us five minutes to get home. What if we, and that's my situation. If I drive to work, it's only about five minutes to get home. Sometimes that's not enough. I have another route to get home that takes me more like 20 minutes. And sometimes once in a while we just need to do that and roll the windows down and let the breeze blow through and just be quiet and experience the moment. So what are some things if we're feeling life is grey, how can we add some colour to our lives? Can we add an ice cream date with our family at the end of our work week to celebrate that we made it through another week? Can we have a phone call with a good friend? Can we reward ourselves with a little bit of time to just listen to music, or just hang out for a little while without anything to do? What are some of those things we can do to add a little color in our life? There's always going to be external pressures; we're not always going to be able to control those. But if we work on the things that we can control and influence things like our mindset, our habits, our routines, then we're much more likely for the rest of it to work well.

Dr. Noel Liu:
That's amazing what you just said, because I believe strongly that that pattern that we have daily in our lives, it's got to be switched up. It's like working out at the gym, right? It's like you always have to have different routines. And what you just said, it just kind of resonated a little bit. So tell me something here. When you found out that you were burnt out and you kind of switched your mindset and now you started seeing things differently, was it one event or was it like a series of events that kind of got you to where you are today?

Eric Recker:
Yeah. So one of the reasons I am so passionate about helping other people is I went really far down that burnout journey, really far down it. And I believe if I hadn't done something about it, that there is a chance I might not be alive today, or there's a chance that at some point my life would be cut short because of the amount of stress that I had. So that's why it's something needed to happen. I mean, burnout almost made me sell my dental practice because I couldn't figure out any other way around it. I just figured that I had to leave it, and that's a pretty scary thought. And from talking to other dentists, I know that I am not the only one that is thinking right now. Man, this mountain of getting to a point where I actually enjoy my practice; that mountain's just too high. I never going to get to the top of that. I'm never going to get to the point where I enjoy what I'm doing. Well, yeah, you're never going to get there if you don't take the first step. So I went so far down that that it almost took me out. And boy, if I would have sold my dental practice and walked away, I don't know what the heck I was going to do. What was I going to do with myself? The burnout was going to follow me; that's the really tricky part. The burnout was going to follow me. It was going to be there wherever I was, and it was going to show up in different ways. So because I went through all of that, I thought, okay, I'm not alone here. I need to go to work figuring out what are the steps. How can we stop this along the way? How can we help other people move forward? And how can I really make a big impact? Because that's what I want to do. I love my practice. I love my patients. I love the relationships I've built with people over 20-plus years. That's amazing. But I believe that because of my burnout journey, I was made to leave a bigger impact, maybe on the dental community as a whole, or maybe just on different practices where people are going through those same issues. So I'm in that space where I'm fortunate to get to do both of those, but it's because I've done a lot of work trying to figure out, okay, what are other dentists struggling with? Wow, they're struggling with a lot of the same things that I was struggling with. Okay, how can we help people create a life that they don't want to get away from? That's really what motivates me.

Dr. Noel Liu:
Love it. Love it. You know, there's a subsequent questions that I would like to ask you. It's a two-part question. Number one is: What are you doing now to help dentists get out of burnout? And number two is: Once they identified some of the actionable items by hearing this podcast, what can they do like right away?

Eric Recker:
Yeah. So one of the things that I'm doing for dentists is one-on-one coaching. The thing about being a dentist is it can be very lonely, especially if you are a solo practice. If you own a practice by yourself, you have teammates, but there's a hierarchy there, and you can't share everything with your hygienist, or you can't share everything with your assistant. It's just, we don't feel comfortable doing that nor is that their burden to bear. Or even where I was, I had two dentists that worked for me, but I was the owner and it was, it felt very isolated at the top. So what I like to do is come alongside people as an ally, kind of a, Hey, you are not alone. Here's somebody else who's walked this journey. Let's see if we can walk it together and help you be able to come up with some better systems and habits and routines so that you can feel better so that you can feel like you're not alone, so that you can feel like you have a plan going forward. And yeah. And so people who are listening to this and hearing some of the actionable steps, I love the phrase small but significant. It's one of my favorite phrases. So oftentimes we can go to a dental CE class and okay, what are we going to implement? Oh man. We learned all this stuff. We got to implement it all Monday morning and our, we come back and our team's teams like, Oh my gosh, he's going to bring all these new ideas. And, you know, just leave him alone for a little while. He'll, it'll pass, and we'll get to move forward. Yeah. Right? Because I know you've been to a class before and you're like, I'm going to implement all this stuff and I'm going to do all these things. And then Monday morning hits and we're like, right back to the grind and oh, great idea, but that's not going to work for me. So when I say small but significant, what I mean by that is you can't cure burnout by snapping your fingers. You just can't. It's a process. It's a journey. And we also want to create things and add things into our lives that help it to not come back. So what is one small but significant thing you can do today to push back the hold of burnout in your life? What is one small but significant thing you can do in your routine to switch things up to maybe make a change a little bit? I always come to work at ten till eight. I always feel fried when I come in there and then I'm ready to go I feel like I'm, but I'm behind the eight ball every time. Okay. Would it be better if you came in at 20 till eight and you had a chance to maybe review and do a couple things before you started your day? Man, I always worked through lunch and I'm always shot at the end of the day. Okay, what if you took 15 minutes of that lunch period, that lunchtime that you have, and you just sat at your desk and you closed your eyes? What if you tried that? So that's what I'm getting at. I'm always trying to help people do that. And some people think, well, I don't have a clue. What are the small but significant things I can do? Well, one thing that I have on my website is a five-day knock-back burnout challenge because I know so many people are facing this, and it's basically five steps that you can take towards easing the hold of burnout in your life. And then at the end of that, I talk about some options of coaching. If you want to work, see if we can have a call and see if I might be a good fit to help walk alongside you. But I'm somebody who believes in giving out a lot of resources. So there's several things available on my website, ways to help take care of yourself. I have a newsletter that I put out: Three Ways to Win. Just lots of great resources because I want to help. I want to be a part of the solution for sure.

Dr. Noel Liu:
Oh, that's great. We'll definitely share the link to your website as well as all your resources. That'd be awesome. How long does a journey take, like for someone in your, you know, experience that who you've helped like in the past? Like let's say you got started with them on a coaching program. Does it vary by individual or is there like a specific time goal that you give your clients?

Eric Recker:
Yeah, that's a great question. There's a couple different paths that we can take. There is a three-month version coaching package that we use sometimes, and basically in that we meet ten times. And what we do is we get clear on what you want, and then we work on some systems and habits to get you moving forward. Typically what happens is people want a little more than that. They want to go a little bit deeper and not only have that initial coaching relationship, but kind of an ongoing mentorship slash coaching. And then after that, oftentimes we'll just meet once a month going forward. So that would be more like a year package. So we'd meet fairly intensely for those first three months, once every week or every other week, and then the rest of the time it would just kind of be monthly check-ins, seeing how everything's going, and then adding in some new strategies as we go along. And I have one person that I've been working with for about two and a half years right now, and she just needs that ongoing check-in, and I'm happy to provide that. So it's different for everybody. It really depends what you want to get out of the relationship.

Dr. Noel Liu:
It's such a great service you're providing, doc. I mean, honestly, before you know, you and I, we met I used to hear about burnouts, but, you know, it was always like something in the back of my mind. I never thought it was like a real, real physical thing. And I always thought it was more like psychological in nature; and which is psychological in nature but I always felt like, you know, it would be like sheer willpower for somebody to just come over it themselves. But hearing from you, it seems like, you know, there's a huge population that needs help and what you're providing, I think it's amazing because once when you're stuck in that rat hole, that's the world you're living in, and it's really, really hard to even identify with you in that hole before somebody, you know, can, you can actually reach out for help. So love what you're doing. How would somebody reach you at, do you have a link?

Eric Recker:
Yeah, absolutely. So home base for me is just my website EricRecker.com and there are links to the hiring me as a coach or to in really the thing I like to make it a really easy onboarding process. First, we do a no-obligation call. We just talk. I hear about your story a little bit, see if what I do might be a good fit for you. And we have a conversation about that. And then I will send you some options for packages and we can talk through that. So I really like it to be a very low-pressure thing. If we're not a good fit, then I'm happy to help you find somebody that is a good fit for you. But I always want to be part of the good part of someone's story. I'm super passionate about that. That's what I want to do. And so if we can work together to help you get to a point where you I mean, we're not always going to look forward to going to work every single day. Some people say that they do that. It's rare. But I want to get to people who are dreading going to work every day and help them discover hope and belief that good days are ahead because they can be if we work on it.

Dr. Noel Liu:
I really love the fact that you said, like, the first time you meet somebody, you ask them that what is it that they want? Because so much times we are like always, always get caught in the daily trivia of life that we really forget our goals, our passion, and we really kind of get sidetracked. And I think, you know, that is one of those things, I think, you're the expert. Once you get that online, I think everything starts falling into places. It's just the noise in this social media world of ours that we live in now.

Eric Recker:
Yeah. You know, as dentists, we're high achievers, right? A lot of times own our own businesses. We manage teams, we do all these kind of things. So when it comes to goal setting, we do that in the high achiever way too. We set 50 goals and there's no way we can pay enough attention to all of those goals. So a big part of what I do is helping people, walking alongside people and helping them get clear on what they really want, because when they get clear on what they really want, it all starts to make a whole lot more sense.

Dr. Noel Liu:
Love it, love it. Last question for you, doc. What does success mean to you?

Eric Recker:
Oh, man. Success means to me. So when I talk about success, I talk about my why or my purpose. So my why is to make a difference in this world that's utterly disproportionate to who I am. And for me, that is walking alongside individuals and helping them find a life that they love because we're meant to enjoy the lives that we have here. We're meant to find happiness. We're meant to have hope. Sometimes we just need some help along the journey. And that's what I want to do.

Dr. Noel Liu:
Great, I love it. Well, Dr. Eric Recker, thank you so much for coming along. I mean, this was a huge, huge help to many listeners who are actually burnt out. So if you are one of them that's burnt out, definitely, look this man up. EricRecker.com. I mean you cannot go wrong. Like he said, just a simple phone call to see if you're a good fit. And I think that will definitely pay off for itself. So with that being said, any last-minute comments, Dr. Recker?

Eric Recker:
Yeah. You know, burnout is a, it's a tough word and a lot of people don't want to raise their hand because burnout is like, Oh, there's no way I could have let myself get burned out. You don't even have to use that term. If your life just feels a little gray, if you're not excited about life, if there aren't things in your life that, if you're just feeling like it's become dull, that's similar to burnout. It's a stage on the journey. So I don't only work with people who say they are full-on burned out. So if you just aren't living the life that you want to live, if you feel stuck, if you just need some hope, let's have a conversation. Because that's what I love to help people do. It is my goal after I work with someone that they will leave with faith, hope, and belief that good days are ahead and we all need some of that, right?

Dr. Noel Liu:
Every single day. Hey, Dr. Recker was such an honor to have you with such good information. Thank you so much once again for coming on board and sharing your wisdom. So with that being said, we are going to land the plane and make sure you guys like and subscribe. Definitely look him up. EricRecker.com. EricRecker.com. And if there's any questions, DM me. In the meanwhile, look out for our next episode. Be great and God bless!

Dr. Noel Liu:
Thanks for tuning in to the Secure Dental Podcast. We hope you found today's podcast inspiring and useful to your practice and financial growth. For show notes, resources, and ways to stay engaged with us, visit us at NoelLiuDDS.com. That's N O E L L I U D D S.com.

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About Dr. Eric Recker:

Eric Recker is dedicated to helping others learn how to #WINtheNOW. Eric has taken on many roles throughout his life, including husband, father, dentist, elite success coach, pilot, speaker, author, mountain climber, and former triathlete. He has pushed himself to the edge, only to realize that what he truly sought wasn’t at the summit. Today, while managing a thriving dental practice he loves, Eric focuses on helping others learn to #WINtheNOW and uncover the life they are meant to live through his coaching and speaking engagements, through his coaching business. As a speaker and consultant, Eric shares stories and strategies that inspire audiences to live with hope, create a plan, and believe that brighter days are on the horizon. Eric and his wife, the amazing Amy, are now empty nesters. They, along with their two grown children, are proud residents of a small town in Iowa.

Things You’ll Learn:

  • Burnout can manifest as both physical symptoms and emotional exhaustion, making it crucial to recognize and address it early on. Ignoring the signs can lead to more severe consequences, including the urge to abandon one’s career.
  • Perfectionism often drives professionals to push themselves to the brink, but this mindset can be damaging in the long run. Shifting focus from perfection to progress can help prevent burnout.
  • Small, intentional changes in daily routines can have a significant impact on reducing stress and improving overall well-being. These changes can include adjusting work hours, delegating tasks, and prioritizing self-care.
  • The first step in overcoming burnout is recognizing the warning signs, such as a lack of joy in daily activities or feeling trapped by routines. Self-awareness is key to identifying when it’s time to make a change.
  • Seeking help from a coach or mentor can provide the guidance and support needed to navigate through burnout. Having someone to offer perspective can be a crucial factor in making lasting changes.

Resources:

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Finding Purpose and Fulfillment in Your Dental Career

Summary:

Networking and building relationships are essential for success in the dental field.

 

In this episode, Dr. Glenn Vo, founder and CEO of Nifty Thrifty Dentists, discusses his journey in dentistry, the importance of honesty and helping others, and the value of work-life balance. Dr. Vo shares his transition from psychology to dentistry, influenced by his sister and his own realization of his potential. He highlights the significance of laying a strong career foundation, fostering a supportive environment, and not comparing oneself to others. Glenn stresses the challenges and sacrifices of starting a dental practice, underscoring hard work, determination, and the need for networking. He also touches on being resourceful, finding purpose, and the importance of giving back to one’s community. Finally, Dr. Vo emphasizes collaboration over competition and the need to adapt to different life seasons for work-life balance, and explains his unique definition of success every listener can benefit from. 

 

Tune in and learn from Dr. Vo’s remarkable journey about achieving success, building strong relationships, and finding purpose in your career and life!

Secure Dental_Dr Glenn Vo.mp3: Audio automatically transcribed by Sonix

Secure Dental_Dr Glenn Vo.mp3: this mp3 audio file was automatically transcribed by Sonix with the best speech-to-text algorithms. This transcript may contain errors.

Dr. Noel Liu:
Welcome to the Secure Dental Podcast. Through conversations with the brightest minds in the dental and business communities, we'll share practical tips you can use to scale your practice and create financial freedom for yourself and your family. My name is Dr. Noel Liu, CEO and Dentist at Secure Dental, and also co-founder of DentVia. I'm your host for the Secure Dental Podcast, and I'm so glad you're joining in.

Dr. Noel Liu:
Hey. Hey everyone, welcome to another episode of our Live here. So this is Dr. Glenn Vo. So we are doing another episode of our Secure Dental podcast. This guy is such a treat. So before we get started, I just want to give a shout out to my sponsor: DentVia. DentVia is a virtual dental administration company, basically assisting our front desk in our dental offices to do all the back-end office tasks such as calls, eligibility, all the back, like lead generation calls and follow up. So definitely check them out. www.DentVia.com. That's DentVia.com. Now, without further ado, this gentleman needs no introduction. Glenn Vo, it's such an honor to have you here, man. He runs Nifty Thrifty. If most of you guys are not aware of Nifty Thrifty, I don't know where you've been living, but let's get down to it. I'll let you do the intro and let's dive right in.

Dr. Glenn Vo:
First of all, thank you so much. I've been a big fan of this podcast, a big fan of you. You're just not only just an amazing entrepreneur, but also what separates entrepreneurs is their generosity. And of course, I don't have to talk about what you've done recently in the dental community. Just so generous, willing to give back, but also not only give back from a monetary standpoint, but giving back with your knowledge and also uplifting other people and being an inspiration. So again, just want to let you know, especially as an Asian, just I always follow other Asian entrepreneurs and I'm like so amazing of what you've done. So thank you so much for having me on here. And I just want to let everyone know that essentially what I do is I'm just a connector of people, as at an early age, I've always been just like a resource, whether it's my friends, growing up, they're asking me like, Hey, what's a good place to buy these school supplies or something like that? And even in dental school, people ask me like, Hey, do you have a, hey, do you have some notes? Or you have some old test or something like that? I've always just been a resource. And literally that's just what I've done in Nifty Thrifty and speaking in podcasts. I just try to help others. I try to get as much knowledge as I can, make as many connections as I can, so I can be a resource to others. Now, how does that translate to the business world, right? If you are a dependable person, you are someone with integrity, and if you are someone who genuinely wants to help others, then people will come to you. I wish I could just share like some kind of, people always think, Do you have this secret like way to talk to people? Is there a negotiation, way to negotiate things? And I tell I don't. I truly I've read all those books. I followed the Grant Cardone's of the world, the Gary Vee's. Look, I've learned from all those guys. And all I can tell you is there's some good stuff there. But if you simply just are a good person, you're honest, and you genuinely want to help people, I promise you the opportunities will come. I wish I could give you something more complicated than that, but if you just do those three things, opportunities will come.

Dr. Noel Liu:
You said such a good point because that is exactly all these big boys have in common, right? You said Gary Vee's, the Grand Cardone's of the world. If you look at all the personal development space, there are all these guys, they all have one thing in common is to genuinely help somebody. The minute you do that, success follows, money follows, fame follows, everything follows. And you're like a proven legend right here, my man. You've taken your Nifty Thrifty such a long way. Let's get started from dental school. What, how did you get into dentistry, man? I would like to hear about that.

Dr. Glenn Vo:
So I want to share something that I think you will appreciate. There's something about growing up in an Asian household. When it comes to your siblings and sometimes your parents, they are very blunt and straight to the point and sometimes like it hurts your feelings. And I remember when I was in college, I just went through the whole college experience. My older sister was just like, she was a child prodigy. She got into dental school when she was like 20 years old. She became a dentist at 24. She didn't have any debt because she had the foresight to have the military pay for it. And so she was like the prodigy. I'm like the middle child. And they just say, just do it. Just try not to bring shame to the family. That's pretty much like my parents there. Yeah. Just don't bring shame to the family. Right? So what happened was, is that I was doing a master's program in health administration. I thought, Hey, that sounds like a good degree. Just slide by and whatnot. And I remember my sister reaching out to me. She said, Hey, come down and why don't you, my assistant is out sick. Can you come and just work for a week? I'll pay you really good. Can you assist me for a week? Little did I know that my parents and her, they had an ulterior motive. Wow. Because they were like, This guy has more potential. He's a smart guy. So I was there, and I remember assisting my sister. This was like near the end of the week. And she stopped.

Dr. Noel Liu:
How old were you?

Dr. Glenn Vo:
This was, I was, I want to say I was like early 20s. I already graduated with undergrad. I had a degree in psychology. I didn't even know what I wanted to do.

Dr. Noel Liu:
Kind of lost at that time.

Dr. Glenn Vo:
Yeah, it was a little lost. And I was doing this master's program because I thought you could probably make six figure income. That's all I cared about. So I was assisting my sister and I remember this like yesterday. I was suctioning. She was doing like, some composites. And she stopped what she was doing. And she looked at me. And she says, Glenn, do you want to be a loser the rest of your life? I was like, What? I was like offended. But only a sister can say that to her younger brother. She said that, she was like, Do you want to be a loser for the rest of your life? What's funny is that the patient that I was working on, she actually looked at me too. They all looked at me. The patient looked at me. My sister looked at me. And I was like shocked. And I said, No, I don't want to be a loser. On the spot. Even the patient looked at me because she wanted to know, do I still want to be a loser for the rest of my life? She looked at me too. And so my sister's, The reason why I brought you down here is because I wanted to see if this is something that you could do, because I feel like you have more potential than just getting some master's degree. And no offense to people who have a master's in health administration. No offense to them. But my sister saw that I had a little bit more in me, maybe the ability to be a doctor. And after that I was like, You know what? No, I don't want to be a loser. And so I actually went back to school, did a post-bacc program at UT, and started going to dental school. Now most people that get into dentistry because maybe they like to eat, maybe they like the science aspect. I actually joined and the reason why my sister brought me there is I watched her how she, I liked the business aspect and the relationship aspect. I liked the fact that as a dentist, you are a mentor not only to your team, but to your patients. You're educating them. And for me, I always had that in my heart. And so that's the reason why I wanted to become a dentist, because I wanted to be a professional that people went to for advice to learn from. And I liked the fact that you can mentor and you can uplift the team. So that's actually how I got into dentistry. Is my sister literally semi-insulting me and saying, You don't want to be a loser, but to this day I still tell her it wasn't for her, I wouldn't have been a Dentist. And honestly, that's what a good sibling is. They watch out for you. Especially the oldest sibling. You're, and I tell this to my daughter all the time. It's your job to lay the foundation, but you have the honor of being the oldest. God gifted you with that honor, so you have to live up to that honor. So that's how I got to industry.

Dr. Noel Liu:
I'm going to steal that from my daughter.

Dr. Glenn Vo:
I tell that all the time. Because like her younger brother, he's a true, my son's, I have a 14-year-old daughter, a 11-year-old son. And so my 14-year-old daughter, she's a competitive swimmer. Obviously, she's really into school as well. My son's a competitive wrestler. And so she, I tell her, You got to lay the foundation, like you going to practice two times a day. She had practice this morning. She had practice in the afternoon. Somewhere in between, she's doing some schoolwork too, and also relaxing because it is summer. And I told her I was like, You can't slack off because this guy is actually watching you. You have a. So anyways, you should put a little pressure on your daughter too.

Dr. Noel Liu:
So you play the psychological game. I love it.

Dr. Glenn Vo:
You got to ... And our parents did that too. Probably in a, maybe not in a, in their own way, but they played these things. But that's what good parents do.

Dr. Noel Liu:
Did your parents ever compare you to other people, like other, like your cousins or your? Man, I was sick and tired of that.

Dr. Glenn Vo:
To this day, I absolutely hate that. And actually, I refuse to do that with my own kids. But I have to say this though, and for those who are watching, who are dental professionals or health care professionals, I want you guys to think about this. And I got this from one of my mentors who I actually, I'm at this gym and these guys, these three, the three richest guys in the, in my community, they work out here. And I'm so lucky that they consider me as a friend. They always pass the advice. But what they always say is that what made you successful: don't rob your kids of that. And I say, What do you mean by that? Glenn, did you have all these things that you have right now growing up? I was like, No, I had to work two jobs. Like sometimes I remember, like, sometimes I had to walk home from school. Sometimes my parents can pick me up; all these things. And they're like, And was that a big reason for your success? I was like, Yeah, because I had to grind and stuff like that. They said, Don't rob your kids of that. I always remembered that and now it's up to us. I can't put my kids in my same situation. That might be like borderline child abuse. Like I can't put them in that same situation, but you can put them in situations that force them to dig down deep and work hard and grit. And so for me, that is putting them in athletics and putting them in like hard courses, because that's going to force them to look within themselves. And that's my way. So again, I know I've steered off a little bit, but I just feel like we.

Dr. Noel Liu:
No, man, that's a great advice because we as dental professionals, if we had a hard life, we always want to give it back to the kids in such a way that, oh yeah, you know what? Just have it easy, because I had it hard. And you know what? You're going to get it easy. But no, you're going to, like you said, you are robbing them off. And the thing is, you are taking away the glory, the glory that you get once you make it; you're taking that away. And I completely 110%, my friend, I agree with you.

Dr. Glenn Vo:
Yeah. And although there's a certain things that my parents did that, I'll be honest, to this day is still bothers me. You can't. And my sister told me this. She says, Can you complain about the results? I was like, Okay, I can't really complain about it. I don't like the means, but you can't complain about the results. And so what we've done, and I truly feel this as, and everyone who has kids can relate to this is our job is to be better versions of our parents, right? Like I want my kids to be a better version of me. And part of that is not just financial and not just scholastic and academic achievements. It's also helping them become a better person. So for me, it's I'm learning the lessons that my parents put to me. I'm just packaging it in a different way, so to speak.

Dr. Noel Liu:
I love it. So, Glenn, tell me this here. You graduated from dental school. What was the first thing you did? Did you, like, open up your own practice? Did you work? How was that journey like for you?

Dr. Glenn Vo:
Yeah. So what I did, and everyone's situation is different. For me, I wanted to help my family out as much as possible. My parents worked really hard and they never asked for anything. So this was not their idea of, Hey, come get out and so that we can retire. No. I wanted to help out. And so for me, like I was focused on, I need to get a job that can make as much money as possible. Yes, could I be an associate at a private practice and learn things and take it easy? Yes, but I need to make money right away. And so I went into corporate dentistry because I wanted that. Number one also to make as much money as possible to help out my family, but also I want to get exposed to as much dentistry as possible. So this group and the founder of this corporate group, I'm friends, he is my mentor to this day. He actually, just to let you guys know, a good way to recruit like-minded people is you share your story and if they resonate with your story, then you know you got that same guy. So he actually came from the same background. His parents owned a fast food place. He was going there after. He told me stories of actually doing his homework and going there and flipping burgers and helping his family, and he built this from the ground up. And so I resonated with that story. So I was like, I'm going to work for this guy. This guy has the same thing. And so I worked for a couple of years, and then my wife and I, we opened our practice. But something that I did, which a lot of times people, they think, Okay, they're going to quit their job and go to their office and start working. Look, guys, when you start your practice, you're not going to get your patient flow, cash flow right away.

Dr. Noel Liu:
Let's be real.

Dr. Glenn Vo:
You got to have your other job. That's what I did. And if my son was going to ask me how to do it, I would recommend this way for him. For some people might not work, but I literally was working six days a week, six days a week: three at my associate job, three at my practice. My wife, she worked a little bit more in the practice, but she was still working part time because we didn't want to take any money from the practice. We reinvested it into the practice, pay down the debt, expand, put money towards expansion. I didn't take any money while I had this other job. It wasn't until, it got to the point where he could support me, that's when I left. So that's what we did. It's I literally, when you talk about Nifty Thrifty is not a term I throw around. I lived it.

Dr. Noel Liu:
Because you lived it.

Dr. Glenn Vo:
I lived it.

Dr. Noel Liu:
Yeah. So when you were starting off, man. So I know what do you think about work? So for somebody starting off, you went through the grind. I went through the grind. Tell me, what does work life balance look like at that time?

Dr. Glenn Vo:
Yeah. So I'll tell you what, guys. I'm learning every day. And even back then I learned so much. But I truly feel that work-life balance is going to be different from everybody, again, for everybody. For me, I'm very involved with my kids. I'm very involved with my family at this season of my life. But I truly feel like work-life balance, you should look at it in the lens of seasons. Okay? Everyone has a different season in their life. In the beginning, if you don't have any kids and it's just you and your wife, or maybe you're not even married yet. You're in a certain season. If you're in a certain season where you don't have a lot of obligations to your family, then you shift your resources and your time maybe more to your business, right? If you're in a season where your kids are getting into the impressionable age, let's say their middle school, high school, you might want to shift things there because they really need you there. So when it comes to work-life balance, I tell people to look at the season you are in your life. So if you have the flexibility of you don't have kids yet and you have the ability to maybe be more, being able to plan it better, then maybe in a certain season you're like, Okay, hey, you tell your wife, Hey, you know what? Or tell your husband, Hey, let's just hold off on kids just for a little bit. Let's just get to this point and then let's get there. Now, of course, life happens. If you already have kids, then that's fine. Then you have to move things around. But work-life balance should be based on the seasons of your life. So look where you are, be, and if you're lucky enough, try to plan it so that when, because again, you can be a awesome father or mother if you're already past that grind of trying to build your practice. If your practice's a certain level, then you're going to be a better father. Now, can you juggle everything? Sure. Our parents did that, but I think we all can admit that you probably could have had your parents a little bit more in your life like they did. I know with my own family, as I've gotten older and I've become a father myself, like I'm a little bit more, have a little bit more empathy for my parents. I was like, Oh man, they did the best that they could. Maybe I complained. Can't pick me up? I gotta walk home? These guys are getting picked up or these parents are here. Maybe when I was younger I would complain. But as an adult now, I can see that. And so we understand. So just plan around the season. That's what I, that's my big advice for work-life balance.

Dr. Noel Liu:
Nice, nice, I completely agree. So when you got started, you opened up a practice. You got to settle. So how long did it take you? Because a lot of times people have this question that, Hey, if I open up my practice, what am I looking at? Two years, five years, one year? I know, again, everyone's different. But in your case, when you said to shift all the resources. And somebody goes, I opened up my practice, but I still want to play golf, I still want to enjoy life, and I'm single. And how long does it take to get that practice profitable.

Dr. Glenn Vo:
Man, so that question, it's going to be different for everyone. But I'm going to tell everybody this is that people who are successful like yourself, like other, these other amazing doctors out there, it wasn't an overnight thing. There's a lot of sacrifice involved. And when I'm talking about sacrifice, I'm not even talking about sacrificing, not buying that Benz or not buying that million dollar house. There's real sacrifices when it comes to also relationships, too. And I'm not even talking about relationships with your spouse. I'm not even talking about relationship with your family. There's relationships with your friends, right? Like you're going to have to go away for a little bit. Or maybe you realize that you only have so much time, so now you prioritize your actual relationship with some friends and whatnot. So for me, I knew that I didn't. I wanted to get rid of my debt as quickly as possible. Obviously, as I've matured now in my financial intelligence and whatnot, that's not necessarily a bad thing. But it took me a while to get that. But I came from the old school where you didn't want to owe anything. So for me, my practice was actually profitable, probably within six months. And then from there shortly thereafter, I wouldn't make sure that my wife. So my wife's a dentist as well. We met in dental school. But I wanted to make sure that she got out of that grind of corporate dentistry and into our practice. So she got into our practice full-time within that six months, and slowly I came over. But again, being Nifty Thrifty, meaning, Hey, I mean.

Dr. Noel Liu:
I save every penny.

Dr. Glenn Vo:
I want to have that nice car. Once you're a doctor, you should have this nice car. And I still drove my like, Honda, and my wife still drove her Toyota. That was working really good. We did buy a house in a few years later, you know, but we try to resist that because we wanted to build that foundation. We wanted to get build up like that nest egg so just in case we have some slow months and whatnot. And that's how we did it. And when I say Nifty Thrifty, I'm talking about if I had to go there and had to change out the filters and do the stuff, I'd do it myself. If I had to go out there, people always talk about marketing. Okay, I want to, let me put all this money in marketing. You know what my marketing was in the beginning? I literally went to every business and met them and shook their hand and offered them like a amazing deal. Like, I'm free exam and cleaning for you? And I'll give you like the discount plan for free for your team. I asked them, I was like, Do you have health insurance, dental insurance for your team? And other small businesses, they have the same problems. No, we don't do that. I was like, How about I help you out? How about I give you this discount for you and your team to come to my practice? That's literally how I got my first patient. And to this day, this guy who owns, like, the most popular burger place in the town that my practice is in; he's still a patient today. And guess what he does? When people talk about this, Go to my dentist; he's the best. Right? And again, think about it. What better way to get patients when other businesses say, Hey, my dentist is Dr. Vo. He's the best. You got to see him. Now, of course, as I'm not in the practice as much, people only want to see me. So they're like, Dr. Vo is only here for a couple of days. You can see his associate. And so that kind of can get troublesome. But again, that's how I built my practice the old-fashioned way.

Dr. Noel Liu:
That is such a great tool. Because here's the thing, man. If we are starting off our practice, we are broke. We got all the student loans, we got all this expenses, payroll, you name it. Right? Why would somebody have this arrogance and this feeling about, No, I'm a doctor; i'm not going to do that? I don't understand that. And like you, I did the same thing. I got thrown out of the parking lots. I was putting those flyers in my, on those parking lot cars. I got thrown out, security came in. Hey, you cannot do that. You got to leave right away. So I feel like, hey, listen, man, if you have to clean up your own crap on the floor, you have to do all this stuff yourself, there's no shame in it when you're starting off. And I think as a learning lesson from you, what you just said, you shared, it really resonates with me because we have to put our ego aside at that time and just go for it.

Dr. Glenn Vo:
Yeah. No, absolutely. Again, it's, I won't, I wouldn't change anything. Obviously, there's certain investments I wish I got in early, right? Like I'm sure all of us. But as far as.

Dr. Noel Liu:
It's never too late.

Dr. Glenn Vo:
Yeah, it's never too late. But as far as just working really hard in the corporate side and doing all that, I wouldn't change anything. No, it's not for everybody. But I had to go through that because then it gave me the kind of like conditioning. Like I went through that, I worked my butt off. I can do the same thing for my office and work my butt off as well. And so again, it's just like doctors, everyone wants to look for a shortcut. And there are shortcuts. There are shortcuts, but there is no shortcut to hard work. The faster you get that through your head, and this is anybody, if you're an associate right now and you feel like there's more, something more for you, you want to open your practice, there is something more. But don't trick yourself into thinking that when you open a practice, you're doing less work. You think like the owner. We're sitting here twiddling our thumbs. We paid our dues. That's the thing. We paid our dues and we took the risks. So I'm telling all these young doctors and even like associates that moved on from my practice, I say, I wish you the best of luck and I want you to do well. I want you to actually use the things that you learned here, because then I did my job. But make no mistake, you're going to work your butt off, and you are going to wonder if you made the right decision, because we all did at one point in time when we opened our practice.

Dr. Noel Liu:
I don't know about you, but I had always had a mind where I was like, Hey, do I want to quit? Always passes your mind. So let's dive into Nifty Thrifty. When did you get this launched and how was it? Like, how long ago? What is it? What is the scenes? You know, the whole thing behind.

Dr. Glenn Vo:
Yeah. Since 2017. And I'm going to share something that I know that you feel very passionate about. And that is: Sometimes you have to be in different rooms. You have to be around people who are doing more because they show you what's possible in your life. So sometimes you happen to be in that room. Sometimes you have to pay to be in that room. But again, like if you get in these different rooms, these mentors or these people around you, they will show you what is possible. And for me, I share a story of one of the coaches that I had. She was really instrumental in helping me change the culture of my practice, just teaching that part. Like I knew the dentistry, like I knew how to work hard. I wanted to learn more about the culture of practice so I can better motivate my team because everyone has a different, let's be honest, everyone has different motivations and different levels of ambition, and you have to be able to work with people who are at different levels, whether it's intelligence or motivation or work ethic. You have to work with all these different people. That's what make up your practice. And so she was a coach who helped me deal with that. And remember when we were done, she looked at me and she says, What's next? So what do you mean what's next? I'm going to grow my practice, get it to a certain level, and either sell it and retire and drink pina coladas on the beach. That was just like my goal, everyone's goal, right? Starting out. And she says, No, no, I see that you have more potential than just this. I feel like you have more potential to impact people beyond the four walls of your dental practice. And she planted the seed. And I started thinking. And I was like, maybe there is something to it. And from there, I've always been a person who was really resourceful. I had to be resourceful because that was my upbringing. When you don't have a lot, you have to figure out a way to get more, whether it's like working an extra job, maybe doing some side hustles, figuring out a way, I grew up with four other siblings, being able, getting some attention for your parents, try to. You have to be resourceful. So I've always been a resourceful person and that's how I grew my practice. Right? I've used dental equipment, bartering with other businesses to help me, bartering with the contractor so he can help build out some extra ops for me for dental work, bartering with the local Maelor place so that, doing dental work for her kids so I can get an ad in the local mailer. Like I was always very resourceful and so I was always giving advice to other dentists about sourcing different money and stuff. And so that's literally how Nifty Thrifty got started. People were asking me questions. They were asking me questions. Another Facebook group I had, which is called Dental Garage Sale, they were asking me questions about saving money, and I was like, Let me start this other group. And slowly what happening was vendors started coming to me. They're like, Hey, how do we get some exposure? I was like, maybe we can work out a deal where you win, I win, and the group wins. And literally, I was just doing something. People were like, they get blown away about what I did in the group. But I will tell you guys very simply. Everything that anyone does in business is pretty much a time-tested technique, right? Marketing in the Facebook group is the same if you were joining a Rotary Club and you were networking. It's basically networking. So what I want people to know is that the answers to growing your business has already been established. Someone who wrote a book, Think and Grow Rich, long time ago, okay, long time ago, it still applies. What you have to understand is that you just have to change the environment. The concepts are the same, the environments are different, right? The environments that you do, being just smart in real estate, you also can bring it into cryptocurrency, right? Like the concepts are still there. And if you break the rules, doc this, if you break the rules, that's what you get in trouble. You pay the price, okay? You pay the price for being arrogant, okay? You follow the rules of business, whatever it is, and you're okay. And so literally, that's how Nifty Thrifty. And so from there, I'm a big believer of not being complacent, doing deals and discounts. Okay. Then we move up to let's get some advice in there. Let's move on. I try to level up more. Okay, let me get the message outside of my group. Let's do podcasts. Right? Let's do events. Let's do speaking. And so that's how it happened. Again, like I, one of my books that I wrote, Industry Influencer, because so many people, they asked me like, how do you do what I do? I'm like, it all boils down to figuring out what your genius ability is. So a genius ability is basically a skill that you have that no one else has; other people might have it, but you're really good at; and you just got to figure out: Does your industry need it? Can you make, and you can make money off of it? And that's your genius.

Dr. Noel Liu:
And that's in your book, right?

Dr. Glenn Vo:
That's in my book. Yeah. So for me.

Dr. Noel Liu:
What's it called again?

Dr. Glenn Vo:
I don't have it right here. I actually have my other book, my Nifty Thrifty book right here. But again, like I tell people just I literally lay out the blueprint because everyone has like a special skill. Like, Doc, you have a special skill, you have this special skill, just knowing, just being really, you're very good at all the details and whatnot. You grew this group practice and you've done these investments because you can see that those things, you have this special ability. Everyone has a special. For me, it's being able to network. Right? That's my, I do that naturally. I don't even, and that's why if you figure out what your genius ability is and you figure out a way to build your business around it, you will never feel like you're working. Doc, I'll tell you right now, I probably work more now than I ever did chairside. But it doesn't feel like work to me. It's easy. Like I'll do this all day. I have to sometimes make sure I don't do this around my kids. Like, sometimes I'll get on a call and we'll work out some deal. And my kids are in the car and I'm like, Oh my gosh. And it's so funny because now my son, he now will say, Hey dad, dad was talking about just getting equity in something, like he's using those words because he hears me bring it up so much. I have to, I need to stop. I need to stop doing that. But if you figure out what your genius ability is, you will never feel like you're working. You will feel like you're just having fun. And I'm just blessed to be in that position.

Dr. Noel Liu:
No, that's great man. I think on that note, I think that's a good thing. I personally feel it's a good thing for our kids because now they know what daddy is doing, and I think that's going to give them a really good head start on what they need to do. I feel that's a good thing.

Dr. Glenn Vo:
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. I, my, it's funny as we go through different seasons of life and I don't want to share this with everyone because everyone's always looking for purpose. I think if you find purpose in your life, and not to go down a spiritual path or anything, I can relate this to anything, if you find purpose in your life, then you will always have somewhere to go. And I think like a lot of times when doctors, they get the practice, they're doing good and then they're like looking around, what else? Like, I can go vacation, I can retire, I could do that. But if you have purpose in your life, and for me, purpose has shifted from the what I want to who I want to serve, right? And at the most basic way of putting this. For me, it's I want to keep pushing because I see my kids are watching. And I want them, I want to show them what's possible because I feel like they can do so much more. And so a lot of times when people are searching for purpose, maybe you should shift it from the I want to attain this, I want to achieve this, to the who, which is maybe it's your, maybe it's your kids, maybe it's your wife, maybe it's your community. If you shift it to the who, how are you going to serve these other people, you're always going to have purpose. So anyways, that's something that I'm always.

Dr. Noel Liu:
That's a great point to drive home, by the way. It's all about the why and the purpose. And here's my thing on the take on the same note. I always believe that no one is better than anyone, right? We all have different powers. We all have different skill set. And at the end of the day, man, all we got to understand is we are human social creatures. We need to collaborate. Once we collaborate with network, we can tap into the mastermind and create our own mastermind. And that's how I feel we should be going in dentistry rather than competing and beating each other up. You know how it is, right? But collaboration is the key. And that's the new net worth, in my opinion.

Dr. Glenn Vo:
Yeah. No, I 100% agree there. I feel like if you have a scarcity mindset, you are missing out so much. You are missing out so much because there's going to be someone, even if they're in the same space, even if they have a practice in their same area. Right? Maybe they're doing the exact same thing. There is so much opportunity out there. There are so many people that need help. And if you just cut yourself off from that relationship, maybe that relationship, and I'll tell you, doc, a lot of times the things that I've gotten fortune that have been really successful for me is just because I just happen to be introduced to somebody. I just happened to meet someone. Someone met again, like a really big, I was a part owner in a dental lab that we just exited, and I happened to make that, I got that introduction through a friend who, he made the introduction and he couldn't do business with this person. But I got introduced to this person. And lo and behold, we got into this business venture. Right? So again, you never know who you're going to meet. You never know. The guy that's picking you up, the Uber guy could just mention something and give you an idea. Like everyone, and that's why I believe what you just said there that everyone has, if you go through life realizing that everyone has a purpose and a value, you're going to get so much opportunity. The second that you feel like, just like what you said earlier, the second you feel like you're better than people, that's where the opportunities dry up. That's where the learning stops. Anybody, any from the guy that is bringing you your food, the person who's checking out, everyone, you can learn something from everyone. I truly believe that. In fact, I learn all the time from people; listening to them, interacting with them. You have that mindset, you're going to get so much info.

Dr. Noel Liu:
And that's what it is, because you are so aware of the opportunities, because you're aware of it. A lot of people say you got to be at the right place at the right time, but I believe that you got to be at the right place at the right time and also be aware. Because if you're not aware, you could be at the right place at the right time all day long. But you're never going to take action.

Dr. Glenn Vo:
Oh, yeah. No, I mean absolutely. Absolutely. Again like you can find lessons in everything. I'm a big sports person. So I always look at lessons when it comes to sports and how things happen. And again, yeah, being at the right place at the right time. But also sometimes you're not at the right place unless you're working hard.

Dr. Noel Liu:
Exactly.

Dr. Glenn Vo:
And sometimes people don't want to, I wouldn't say not talk to you because I think for the longest time I was I grew up with very little. So I always had a chip on my shoulder. I was like, I always had to prove things. But I think what I changed my mindset is, no, it's not because people don't see your worth, right? They just don't notice you yet. And it's up to you to try to get to another level for them to say, Oh my gosh. And so for me, for the longest time, Oh, this guy blew me off or whatever. And it's not that. They're so busy. They're so busy. There's so many things going their way. But if you're working really hard and you build something, then all of a sudden people will notice you, right? So it goes back to all those things come into play. But there's no shortcuts. Tom Brady just actually just had his retirement ceremony. And his, one thing that he kept on, that he got his jersey retired by the Patriots. And in his speech he says: No shortcuts. He kept on saying that: No shortcuts. And you got to put hard work in there. And yes, there is some shortcuts, but there's no shortcut to hard work, no matter what.

Dr. Noel Liu:
Don't you agree with all the sport greats and all like guys like Kobe, Jordan, Brady? Everybody has the same work ethic. You got to put in the reps, you got to put in the reps.

Dr. Glenn Vo:
Again, those guys are like all-time greats and amazing people. And even when they say that, right, these guys are just God-gifted. They have everything. You probably thinking like, Oh, Brady's, he's a tall guy and he has a good arm and everything, but I like using him and Kobe. In fact, I actually have, they're like, in my office here, I actually have a painting, a picture of Kobe, of Brady, and Jordan up there as well with some sayings, because yes, they're amazing people, but they had to work so hard. If you guys, again, like I already mentioned, if you're like a good person, you have an abundance mindset, you're willing to help people, you're willing to work hard, you do those three things, you do those four things, success is going to come. You don't have to, of course, it's helpful if you get more knowledge, read more books, but if you just do that, success will come.

Dr. Noel Liu:
I love it. So what's next step for you?

Dr. Glenn Vo:
Next step is something exciting about is again, I'm trying to surround myself by people who, you know, such as yourself, such as Dr. Gianni Montanucci, all these different people who are just amazing investors, who are just, who surround themselves with a great network. So for me, honestly, what started, I'm actually co-hosting a conference that actually you're going to be at, that you're going to be at; that passive investing for dentist conference. And actually, what happened, i'll tell you the story behind that. The story behind that was I reached out to Dr. Gianni. I was like, Hey, I just, can you like give me some resources? I just want to learn more. I just want to learn more. I don't want to become like a real estate professional. Like I don't have time for it right now. I just want to learn more. Can you just connect me? And he mentioned you and a few other Facebook groups, and I was like, I just want to be around good people who are like, they just want to share and they want to share in like the deals that they're doing. Like, I'm not looking for someone who just wants to sign me up for their mastermind or whatnot. I want to see if they want to share that. So he was like, Let's do a meetup. Let's get like ten people. I'll bring some people in my network and you bring some dentists, and let's just have them meet up in Dallas. That's what it started off with. Then what happened was people are like, Can I come to this meetup? Can I come? And we're like, Okay, fine, we're gonna have to do like a little event. 50 people. So then more people start to get invited. And now he was, Gianni was like, Glenn, more people want to show up.

Dr. Noel Liu:
You guys are sold out.

Dr. Glenn Vo:
Yeah, so we sold out. So then basically what we did was we, I had to scramble around, find another venue last minute.

Dr. Noel Liu:
No way. You guys are actually finding another venue, like a bigger size?

Dr. Glenn Vo:
And so now, so now we're going to do 100. And I told Gianni I was like, There's no way I'm going to get anything bigger than this. So right now we have 30 seats available and that's it. Like I can't do anything about it. But what started was we were just going to meet up and I just want to learn more. And now a bunch of people want to come together and learn more, and I'm excited. You're going to be there with a panel with a few other amazing.

Dr. Noel Liu:
I'm excited, I'm excited. When is this? August 16th, right?

Dr. Glenn Vo:
August 16th. It's in Dallas. It's in the town outside of Dallas called The Colony, which is an amazing area. And again, like we literally, we had to find another venue, we found it here, to get more people. But for me, it's all about just learning more and leveling up and just getting surrounded by other people like yourself who have an abundance mindset. Because I just want to get better. I just want to learn more. And what I'm hoping is.

Dr. Noel Liu:
There's very few of us out there. I'm not joking. You know how it is. When you look around. It's hard to find like-minded people.

Dr. Glenn Vo:
And that's the thing, and that's the thing. And we're so excited about this because I want to learn more when it comes to this. Because if you look at, I'll be honest with you guys, if you look at the amazing entrepreneurs out there, even some of the athletes I just brought up. Learning never stopped for them. They were good at making money in a certain way, but they wouldn't have learned other things. And that's really the, I'm not saying that I'm going to become a real estate professional, but I do want to know what's out there because I see all these other high-level people benefiting from these things. And again, you have to work with the people that have been there, like yourself and Dr. ... and all these other guys who are willing to share that knowledge. Because look, at the end of the day, you start as a dental professional too. You are giving back to your alma mater and helping all these people out. Again, guys, for me, I'm looking at you. And I'm like, I want to get, how did he do that? But at some point, you started where I was and that's what it's all about, right?

Dr. Noel Liu:
I learned this from Tony Robbins. The secret in living is giving. And that's one thing I've noticed. Like, ever since we pledged that amount and ever since we did a lot of the other stuff that we do on the side, the business automatically just gets better. It's crazy karma. Like people just say, Hey, how are you doing it? You don't have to do it. It's just, it just happens without getting too spiritual, right?

Dr. Glenn Vo:
No, I love it. It's just. And I will tell you, as someone who has saw what you did, it's inspiring to me. It's inspiring to me because it's when you give like that and when you're willing to help others, you don't know who it touches. And for me, I was like, Wow, that's amazing. Like I, and when you give like that, it ends up helping more people.

Dr. Noel Liu:
More impact, more people. And I wish everybody did at a grassroot level. And this way then, you know what the school doesn't need to borrow money from Delta Dental.

Dr. Glenn Vo:
Yeah. Yeah. Exactly, exactly.

Dr. Noel Liu:
So yeah. Glenn, hey, it was amazing conversation. So two things here. I just want to ask you, what does success mean to you and how would you define family?

Dr. Glenn Vo:
What's funny is that defining success, I want to say, the majority of my adult life I've tried to search for that definition, right? And early in my career, I thought it was a dollar amount. I thought it was a maybe amount of material things. Maybe I thought it was also the ability to do stuff for other people in my family, what I could give them. But what I realized as I've gotten older and gotten mature and lived life a little bit more is success to me, is the ability to spend time with the people I love without restriction. And what I mean by that is that's my family, the people that I love working with, without restriction. And literally that goes to freedom. That goes to freedom. I think at the end of the day, when people are searching for the things that they think they want, like I want X amount in my bank account, I want this, I want that, what they're really asking for is the freedom of it. And so for me, it's the, but not just, freedom for me is the ability to spend time with the people I love. I've gotten there. I'm looking for deeper levels of that. I'm lucky enough to be able to pick up my kids every day from school, take them to their activities, have a schedule that's flexible enough for that, and also do good and fulfill myself as well. Spending time with the people I love without restriction. And there's different levels of that. I'm just trying to get to the deeper, that's like the Zen state to get to the deepest level of that. Again, people I love is is not just my family, but people that I like to work with, I like to mentor, that are like family to me. That's what success. And of course, family is something that's more, that's goes beyond just your blood family. I think we all can agree that sometimes our blood family probably doesn't treat us the best sometimes. So family for me is the people that touch you on a deeper emotional and spiritual level. I have people who are not my blood family, but I consider family members, mentors who I feel like consider they're my, big brothers, big sisters. And so that's what it is. So again, like family is not limited to just blood, but it is the people who affect you on a positive way, spiritually.

Dr. Noel Liu:
I love it. Great. All right, my man. I appreciate your time. Thanks for joining us here. It was great insight.

Dr. Glenn Vo:
Thank you so much for having me on. And for those who reach out to me anytime, I'm easy to find on social media, LinkedIn, Facebook's best way. Happy to talk to everyone. Again, that's how I run my business, run my life by connecting with more people. So if you have any questions or anything, let me be of service to you. Reach out to me.

Dr. Noel Liu:
I love it. This is Dr. Glenn Vo. Ladies and gentlemen, we're going to land a plane. And if you guys have any questions, we're going to put a link below. He is not hard to find. He is everywhere and definitely Nifty Thrifty. If you guys have not heard of it, I don't know where you've been living, but definitely look it up and be a member. Join. He is a great resource. So with that being said, make sure to like and subscribe. We'll see you guys on the other episode, and for now, have a good one.

Dr. Noel Liu:
Thanks for tuning in to the Secure Dental Podcast. We hope you found today's podcast inspiring and useful to your practice and financial growth. For show notes, resources, and ways to stay engaged with us, visit us at NoelLiuDDs.com. That's N O E L L I U D D S.com.

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About Dr. Glenn Vo:

Dr. Glenn Vo is a practicing dentist, best-selling author, dental entrepreneur, and karaoke enthusiast. He is the creator of Nifty Thrifty Dentists, a social media platform that reaches over 54k dental professionals on Facebook and 23k subscribers on YouTube. Additionally, he founded Dental Lifestyles Magazine, a quarterly publication for dental professionals across the US. Dr. Vo is a USA Today Best Selling Author with his debut novel “2612 Cherryhill Lane” and a Wall Street Journal Best Selling Author with his business book “Industry Influencer.”

Dr. Vo coaches professionals nationwide, helping them become thought leaders in their industry. He is also the owner of Denton Smiles Dentistry, a large group practice serving the Greater Denton Area since 2009. Through Nifty Thrifty Dentists and Dental Lifestyles Magazine, he supports dental professionals in advancing their careers and helps dental companies grow by increasing brand awareness within their networks.

Dr. Glenn Vo lectures across the country on dental overhead management and social media strategies for dental corporations. In his personal life, he continues to combat tooth decay and gingivitis in his practice while serving as an Uber driver for his kids and a trophy husband to his wife, Susan.

Things You’ll Learn:

  • Resourcefulness can help grow a successful practice and achieve financial freedom.
  • Finding purpose in life and career shifts focus from personal achievements to serving others.
  • Collaboration and an abundance mindset open up more opportunities than competition.
  • Challenging situations help develop skills and qualities necessary for professional success.
  • Giving back to one’s community and alma mater fosters personal growth and success.
  • Success goes beyond material possessions and includes spending time with loved ones and mentors.

Resources:

  • Connect with and follow Dr. Glenn on LinkedIn, Instagram, and Facebook.
  • Learn more about Nifty Thrifty on LinkedIn and their website.
  • Discover more about Dr. Glenn Vo on his personal website.
  • Buy the Nifty Thrifty Dentists book by Dr. Glenn Vo here.
  • Get a copy of Industry Influencer by Dr. Glenn Vo here.
Categories
Podcast Uncategorized

Exploring Cutting-Edge Digital Techniques in Dentistry

XCell Dental Implants
My newest podcast with Dr. Abenhaim about exploring Cutting-Edge Digital Techniques in Dentistry.
XCell Dental Implants

Summary:

Welcome to the Secure Dental Podcast!

This new show will bring you conversations with the brightest minds in the Dental and Business Communities. Hosted by Dr. Noel Liu, this show will dive deep into practical tips to grow your business. Many entrepreneurs wished they had a guidebook or someone to help them understand how to grow their businesses, Well you’re in luck because this show will be exactly that!

Tune in twice a month and unleash your full potential!

Secure Dental -Jonathan Abenaim: Audio automatically transcribed by Sonix

Secure Dental -Jonathan Abenaim: this mp3 audio file was automatically transcribed by Sonix with the best speech-to-text algorithms. This transcript may contain errors.

Dr. Noel Liu:
Welcome to the Secure Dental Podcast. Through conversations with the brightest minds in the dental and business communities, we'll share practical tips you can use to scale your practice and create financial freedom for yourself and your family. My name is Dr. Noel Liu, CEO and Dentist at Secure Dental, and also co-founder of DentVia. I'm your host for the Secure Dental podcast, and I'm so glad you're joining in.

Dr. Noel Liu:
Hello, everyone! Welcome to another episode of our Secure Dental podcast, where we bring in many bright talents from our dental industry. Today, we have a very, very special treat. I got this gentleman here, this guy has been like my lifesaver in full-arch so, but before we get started, I would like to shout out to our sponsor. DentVia is a dental virtual administration company that helps our front desk staff supercharge them with back-end calls and back-end tasks, so definitely visit them at DentVia.com again. That's D E N T V I A .com. Now without further ado, I got Dr. Jonathan here. He's a world-renowned double-board certified implantologist and has revolutionized the dental implant experience with the XCell Implant Process. With over a decade of experience in full mouth rehab, Dr. Jonathan has harnessed the latest digital dental technology to offer faster, more predictable, and superior quality service. From his state-of-the-art office, Dr. Jonathan, the brains behind the XCell Implant Process. Welcome.

Dr. Jonathan Abenaim:
Thank you so much. Thanks for having me.

Dr. Noel Liu:
So, doc, how did you get started with dentistry? Let's go back in dental school.

Dr. Jonathan Abenaim:
So it's actually quite interesting. You know, a lot of people, they go into these fields because they have some sort of experience when they were young, you know, say, they say maybe you go to the army, you go to the police, you become a police officer, maybe because you were bullied or something. I would think maybe you become an MD because, you know, you had somebody in your family maybe was sick, or you had some experience at the doctor that decided that you wanted to do something about medicine. And if you were a dentist, maybe you got hit by a car, or you had some crazy dental experience that made you love it. But to be honest with you, I've never had a cavity in my life. I went to pediatric dentist my whole life and just had cleanings. Never really had the only. My biggest dental experience was at the oral surgeon to have my wisdom teeth taken out like every other 17 to 18-year-old kid. And I decided I'm going to go to do dentistry because I like people. But before dentistry, I thought I was going to be a computer science major. And then I realized, I really like people. I like technology, but I really like people also. And there was nothing in technology 20 years ago when I became a dentist. I mean, the biggest thing was a ... Dent, you know, like that was like, wow, that was huge. And maybe Dentrix had come out and we can actually not have to write our full charts, like you said, like hybrid charts, right? But I said, I'm going to be a pediatric dentist because that's what I know about dentistry and an externship of pediatric dentistry in dental school. And I swore to myself that I don't want to sing the wheels on the bus go round and round for the rest of my life every single day. So, I really looked into more things in dentistry, and I couldn't find anything that I loved more than the other because I just loved everything, and that led me to where I am. And people ask me, like, how did you do this? And I said, you know, I went back 20 years ago. We had this class in dental school that said to us, write down your mission statement. Write your mission statement about why you want to become a dentist and what is your business going to look like, and what's your practice going to look like. And I read it till today, I found it, and I read it till today, and the major topic was, or the major theme was change the brand of dentistry. Because I was so tired of hearing, no offense doc, we really don't like you. And that's like the most offensive thing because if you're a dentist, right? And you really care about your profession? You know how much we think about it, how much we dedicate our life to make the patient experience the best? I mean, listen, I'm not the one that makes the Septocaine taste really bad. I just buy it. I mean, I'm sorry, anesthesia tastes bad, and I wish somebody I'm not smart enough to make it taste good. So, like I really said, you know what? When I started doing full arches, I said, there is no way I'm going to be taking these Oprah tray impressions, cutting up these Invisalign trays, ordering a custom tray, hoping that I find those holes before the PVS or the Polyether sets, and do this again. And then when I take it out and send it to the lab, the lab either loses my impression or they mess up on the pour, and then I got to redo the whole thing again. And I was so tired of apologizing to my patients for things I didn't do, and that drove me nuts. On the other side, I felt kind of a hypocrite when I put in a beautiful restoration and I didn't make it. It was only my lab technician, and I'm like, yeah, I'm great, take a look. It's like when doctors show their case, and they show the before and the after. I'm like the before, your staff probably took the picture, and the after, your lab technician did. So what did you really do? You cut the tooth a bit. You took an impression. I mean, it's kind of hypocritical, and I was like, wow. And I don't have a problem with those before and afters, but like, if you didn't do it, tag your lab. The guy or the gal worked really, really hard, tag them. You know, give them the give them the credit. Don't take it off.

Dr. Noel Liu:
I love the statement.

Dr. Jonathan Abenaim:
It's like, it's crazy. So, as you guys know, like I'm the surgeon, I'm the restorative dentist, and I'm the lab technician. I'm the guy that runs the mill. I'm the guy that centers it. I'm the guy that does a lot of it, and if not all of it, and I don't know, I guess I sleep better at night.

Dr. Noel Liu:
Oh, that's an excellent statement because, you know, a lot of these before and after, and I think you're the only person who called out that shot. So I love it, man, I love it. So after graduation, did you guys go right to, you know, your own practice? Did you work in an associate? What was the process like for you?

Dr. Jonathan Abenaim:
So, like I told you, I had nothing that I wanted to only do. So, my dream was always be to be a periodontist and a prosthodontist. And I applied to Perio Pros at Penn, where I went to undergrad, and they accepted two people, and I was one of them that they accepted. And they had changed the dean, and I was the year that all graduate funding was gone. So I went to Penn, I wouldn't have a scholarship, I paid for four years of dental school and Perio Pros is another four years. And I said to myself, oh my God, if I go for another four years of Perio Pros, even though I was recruited from the day that I started to do this, I said, My God, I'm going to finish with half-a-million dollars in debt then, which is almost a million today, probably.

Dr. Noel Liu:
Easy.

Dr. Jonathan Abenaim:
And I said, I can't do that. I tried to speak to the dean. It was a new dean from Harvard. She said to me, oh, you want a scholarship? No problem. Just dedicate seven more years of your life after school here. I'm like four years of dental school, four years a Perio Pros, and seven years of academic teaching. I'm not going to do this. So I started looking for other programs, and Florida was the first and only Pros program in the country that allowed Prosthodontists to place implants. Now, they have to place implants, all pros residencies, to be able to graduate, but it was the first one, and they offered me a full scholarship. I got to school, and the implant director was fired. The director was fired, and my scholarship vanished. So I said, well, I'm not gonna leave Penn to come to this school. I'm going to say, what? Not even. And I stayed there for six months. I was married, I had a kid, and I said, I'm out of here. I went, and I did a part-time implant residency with Dr. Miller at the Atlantic Coast Dental Research Clinic. I did that for about a year, and that was really like it was so little. You know, people think they take maxi courses, and they're going to be implantologists. I mean, you got to practice. So, once I left there, I was working in Florida. I worked for 7 or 8, what you guys call DSOs today or DMOs. And I got fired seven times, and I got fired seven times because my dentistry was bad, was because I didn't want to do bad dentistry. And I'll never forget, on the last day of my job, the head of the DSO said to me, Jonathan, just shut the f up and do what I tell you to do. And I said to him, I'm really sorry, but I worked really hard for my license, and I'm not going to use some lab technician who does this in his garage, and I don't know what the hell they're doing or how they're coming. And it's, I'm not proud to put this in people's mouth. And a high-end lab for a DSO, then was Glidewell like, they're like, you cannot use Glidewell, it's too expensive. And that was $99 then. And I said, this is enough. And it was two years after dental school. I probably had like $30 to my name, maybe, plus my dental school debt and everything. And I was like, I told my wife, I said, I don't understand. I went to the best school in the world, I have nothing, I have all of this skill that I learned and I can't do it. And we decided to one day I decided to open The New York Times, which is that's how you found a job. And I found a practice in New York, New Jersey, actually, and I said, let's go. I bought it sight unseen. I lost 40% of the practice within the first three months.

Dr. Noel Liu:
Why was that?

Dr. Jonathan Abenaim:
Nobody likes to do nice dentistry. They like when you buy a practice from a dentist who just patched everything or just watched everything, and then you come in and do digital X-rays, redo the office, redo everything, and start telling, diagnosing novice dentistry people that just want you to diagnose what their insurance covers, they don't like it. And when you don't have the communication skills, especially when you come out as a dentist, you think that you're talking to teeth. You need to talk to people.

Dr. Noel Liu:
Wow, that's huge, man. That's huge. This thing, what you just said, I think that's going to help so many people.

Dr. Jonathan Abenaim:
Yeah, like when you come out, you're trained by people that can't do most of the time most of the dental professors, unless they're passing through or doing this for fun because they're already been successful. Most of them are just there because they're stuck there, and they don't teach you how to talk to people, or you're just so busy in dental school, you don't learn how to talk to people, and you talk to teeth, and you start saying, well, you know, the occlusion and the curve of Spee and the curve of Wilson and the non-balancing occlusion and the non-balancing contacts and the protrusive movement. And patients are saying, well, what do you even say? And you know my big thing is when I talk to other people and other professions they start to talk to me about this. And I say, listen, man, I'm a dentist. I don't know anything else. Explain it to me again, because if you want my money, I better understand it. And if I don't understand it, you're not getting it. And they get very frustrated. People get very frustrated in other industries because, like, what do you mean you're so difficult? I'm like, you tell me, why does my HVAC need to be replaced? If it's working, tell me why, and I'm having my HVAC replaced right now in my office. Why? And people think that, you know, they start saying heat transducer and the blower and the and I'm like, I don't know what any of that means. Like, explain it to me. And we do this same thing every single day. Like, you do not have to read your consent form to the patient. You need to talk to them as if they were your brother, they or your sister. They were your mother; they were your father. And talk to them like a human being, that's all people want. It's the most vulnerable thing to sit in a chair. You know, they're not sitting in a chair like this. They're sitting in a chair like this, and it's so vulnerable, and you're just like you expect them to say yes to you. And getting back to I lost 30% to 40% of my practice that I purchased, and the history was from there. Like they say, you know, before something great happens, everything has to fall apart.

Dr. Noel Liu:
Would you say that was like your bottom part of your life? Like, you know, you lost everything you married?

Dr. Jonathan Abenaim:
Not the part I didn't care about the patients. Really, the biggest thing of my life was my dream was to be a Florida dentist. I came from Canada. It was freezing. I want to live in the sun, right? And that was my dream to do cosmetic dentistry in Miami, Florida. And I had all of this skill and I worked so hard to be the best at what I thought I was, and nobody gave me the opportunity. I was just another associate. What was nice about being associate is that I used to come in with my coffee, my newspaper, and my bag, and everybody was happy to see me as opposed to today, not my staff, but I'm assuming a lot of people, they come in, everybody runs away, oh shit, the boss is here. It's a different mindset, and associates, they don't get it. You know, when you're an associate, you're living by today, and that's one of the problems that associates have. They say like, well, how much am I going to make today? And dentistry is not a sprint; it's a marathon. And there's going to be days where you're not going to make any money, and there's going to be days that you're going to lose money. You may have to write a refund check. You may have to redo something at your own cost. That's just the business that you're in. But if you understand that you build relationships with people, it's like, you know, when I first started, I wrote a book. It's called The Trust Factor about building trust with people. And I used to teach about all of these ways to talk to people in the hygiene room, how to build trust with your treatment plan. And, you know, today, like almost 20 years into this, I really don't have to do that as much because my patients know me. I did that 15 years ago. So, if you're a young dentist and you're an associate, use that opportunity not to make as much money as possible. Use that opportunity to hone your skills. And when I talk about hone your skills is not only your skills, just like communication-wise, try what works, learn about what works. Learn about nonverbal communication with people. But more importantly, like how do you become a full-arch dentist? If that's what you want to do, take out a shit ton of teeth. Give out bone grafts for really cheap, so you'll learn how to pack bone. You learn how to manipulate flaps. You learn how to do multiple different types of sutures. Because I can tell you when you see full-arch dentists and they show you their flap wide open and they have all of those implants put in, that is the easiest part of the procedure. The hardest part is how are you going to put it back together so that it looks good and it stays good. And I always tell my team, I'm like, this is the most important part, how we put everything back together. It's doing a screw, dude. Anybody could do that. It's it's a bit like one of the guys I used to go to dental school said, it's a post and core. It's a huge post and core; it's not that hard. But to put everything back together, to manipulate the tissue so that it has tension in certain areas and no tension in other areas, and it stays where you want it to stay, and it thickens where you want it to thicken, that is everything about full-arch dentistry. Because you can see people that are doing full-arch dentistry, you look at their cases, the tissue is gone, completely gone like six months, eight years. And that's why when I show my post-ops, I don't care about the X-ray. The X-ray is for dentists that treat teeth when I post ..., like look at my tissue. That is everything. If the tissues stay, that means I designed my prosthesis correctly. I educated my patient correctly on hygiene. I maintained them correctly. My occlusion is correct. All of this stuff that everything comes into it. And really, I would say that probably like real implant dentistry. And when I say, by real implant dentistry is not oral surgery, implant dentistry, periodontics, implant dentistry, general dentistry, implant dentistry, but a real implantologist, implant dentistry that involves surgery, restorative dentistry, and lab, that is probably the hardest thing in all of dentistry. So yes, the money is fun. Like I want to do what you do. Hell yeah. I also want to go to the marathon, to the Ironman and wait at the finish line and cross with you, but that's not the way it works, man. You got to really, really study your craft. And if you don't study your craft, you're never going to be great. You're going to get burned. And that's what happens, people get burned. And it's not fair because there's a lot of money involved.

Dr. Noel Liu:
You know, you're so true about the money involved because people actually putting their house, they like taking out like HELOCs from their houses, right, and their homes where they live, and they're trying to get this procedure done. If you are like one of those weekend warriors, I mean, you got to understand there are limitations. And I love the fact that you are like, hone onto your skills.

Dr. Jonathan Abenaim:
Yeah, you know, we talk so poorly about our dentist friends that go and take a course on the weekend. I mean, when else do you want them to take it? The weekend is when they're not treating their patients. It's when they're able to like, breathe. But I think we can worry, or is probably, we're referring to somebody who went Friday and Saturday and then decided he's an expert.

Dr. Noel Liu:
No, that's exactly what I meant, you know?

Dr. Jonathan Abenaim:
And it's important for us to say that because, like, what else do you want me to take a course? MDs also take courses on weekends, you know.

Dr. Noel Liu:
Hey, I did all the weekends. You know, I did, like, several weekends, right? And nothing wrong with that, but I never called myself an expert till I did not put in the hours and the years.

Dr. Jonathan Abenaim:
Amen.

Dr. Noel Liu:
I love into getting that craft like, you know, like perfected. So you went from your office. So, let's dive into your XCell process, man. I mean, I love this stuff here. Yeah, I've been using it for about a year. I'm sold. I mean, I try so many different systems out there. I mean, this is, like, no joke. I even had, like, my lab guy coming out do photogrammetry for me. But ever since I started using your product, photogrammetry is out of the window. So let's talk a little bit about that. So, how did you get started with this?

Dr. Jonathan Abenaim:
Oh, man, like I mentioned before, when I was doing full-arch dentistry, I was doing it like everybody else. Take the teeth out, place the implants, do a denture conversion, grind the shit out of the denture, trying to make it fit. Patient always ended up like this, then patient goes home. After that grueling 16-hour surgery, comes back, you got to take everything off. Hopefully, it didn't fail and then start all over again. Start taking all the records and the bite rims and the wax and the this. And I said to myself, If I'm going to scale this, this process is not scalable. It's impossible. Like imagine I did I, you know, I, 20, 30 arches a month like that, like okay, the surgery you can do, but how are you going to restore it? You know, and I think that implant dentistry hasn't changed. Before I started pushing this whole digital thing, which I believe I was really the first one that ever did this. And I'll tell you about this in a second, but implant dentistry didn't change because it was controlled by surgeons, and surgeons just placed the implants, gave them the immediate denture, and it was someone else's problem. All of the funds were usually eaten up by the surgery, and the restorative dentist, which was usually the general dentist or the prosthodontist, had to, like, deal with whatever money small money was left for the patient to restore them, and it was a loss leader. The lab bills were good. Hybrid was anywhere between $7500 to $12,000. That's what it cost. And I would say 2008, 2009, that's what you had to pay. The components were crazy. Gold was crazy, zirconia wasn't as nice, and if you did use zirconia, you had to use it as a substructure. And then the guy had to layer the whole thing. And then everything broke two years later, and it was just like, this is not fun. Like, I'm just going to do scaling and root planing a single crown with my CEREC, and I'm going to call it a day. I don't need the stress in my life, but I loved it. I loved doing it. So I said to myself, enough; I need to figure this out. And I literally deep-dove into digital dentistry. And I think that when the trios came out, trios three, and when the Roland machine started to become actually affordable, not 50, but Roland 51 became available, it was actually financially feasible for us to actually do something like this. The problem is in 2015, 2016, when I started inquiring about this stuff, everybody said to me, no, it doesn't work. And I said to myself, we do full arch of teeth with a scanner. Why doesn't it work with implants? And the literature continuously, even to today, or even the people that have photogrammetry, will say it is not possible. And I just take out the thousands of X-rays that I have, and I show it to them, and I show them the post-ops, and it is possible. And in 2024, like, I don't need to do that anymore. But in 2016, 2015, when I started to teach this, everybody said, I've doctored my X-rays. I lied about the cases. It wasn't true, and it was just like as I started amassing the cases, people started saying, whoa. So the first thing I started doing was, how am I going to acquire the data correctly? It wasn't even about manufacturing or designing yet, so I needed to master how do I acquire it, and I started studying what was wrong with the internal scanner and to today, what's wrong with the neuro scanner? So I solve that problem. Then I went into the manufacturing because I wasn't really interested in design, and design was like just I felt like it was root canals. If you don't do it every single day, you don't spend the time. And it was too cheap to outsource even to today. It's just so cheap to outsource it. So, I started doing manufacturing because manufacturing was the bottleneck that stopped me. When you send it to the lab, they used to say to you, it's going to be ready in two weeks. And when I started visiting labs, I'd never been inside a lab. And what you realize that happens in the lab is they have these little bins and they're stacked up one next to each other and say one, today is Friday, and the due date is Sunday. It's been sitting there for about 12 days, and they work on it on the last two days. And I said, well, why are you making me wait two weeks? Why can't I just schedule it correctly? Because it really only takes you two days to do it, because I used to think that they worked on my case for two weeks straight and I'm like, how are they making any money? Two weeks of charging me $100 a crown doesn't make any sense. And then I started realizing how labs are. They don't have a good management system. That's why it takes them two weeks to do it, especially smaller labs. So, I started looking into manufacturing. I said, well, if I can buy a mill, because when I started, the mills used to cost half $1 million, and they were massive, probably the size of this office that I'm sitting in today. Most dental offices don't have room. Most dental offices, I would assume, are I haven't been in a lot of dental offices, but probably 1000 to 1200 square feet. I would say an average dental office, right? If you're like in middle of nowhere, real estate is free. You can have a million. You know, if you're in Manhattan, you like you work like this, right, right? Anyhow, so I started getting into manufacturing. That was pretty eye opening because I thought I had a CEREC and I knew how to manufacture, which is not true. So, I really started studying this. And manufacturing and milling is really something that it's a craft. It's an art. Just last night, we figured something else out to make the workflow even easier for people. And this is, like I told you before, we got on air yesterday was like massive eye-opening, like so many breakthroughs that came through in milling, design, acquisition, like crazy stuff that I'm going to be showing in August at Full Arch Raw, that it was like, wow, I can't believe I'm doing it the other way this whole time. And I know if I didn't figure out, nobody's figuring it out because I work with people all the time and they have no idea to this day, everybody's just like taking little pieces, and they're not weekend warriors. You know what? They are social media warriors. They look on the internet, they see a picture, they see a video, and they think they know it. I told somebody, you need to come to my course in August. He said, oh, I'm really busy. I have this, I have that, and meantime does not a mill does not acquire, does nothing. He goes, well, in the meantime, I'll just be looking at the stuff you pump out on social media. I'm like, dude, this stuff I show on social media is not even less than 1% of what I'm doing, and it's done for a reason. Why would I show you everything? It's bad for business anyhow. So I started doing manufacturing, and we cracked that code, and just lately, I started doing designing to crack that code. And when I say when I crack that code, it's not about learning how to do it. It's learning about how to do it efficiently. Because, you know, at the end of the day, I'd rather be doing podcasts with you. I'd rather be on Google. I'd rather be on playing basketball with my son. I'd rather be swimming. I'd rather be doing something else other than standing in front of a computer doing this. But if I can do it really, really quickly and really, really efficiently and really, really well, why wouldn't I take that on?

Dr. Noel Liu:
Exactly. So your manufacturing, what made you start with that, man? I mean, like a lot of dentists, they'll be like, hey, I can just give it to my lab, or I can just order it from here. What was the thought process behind you with saying, hey, I want to manufacture this thing here, and I don't want a third party doing it?

Dr. Jonathan Abenaim:
I would say that I don't know if the word paranoid is, but I always I have this fear that one day everything's going to be taken away. And I feel that if I'm not prepared for disaster, disaster will eat me alive. In my career, I've had a lot of disasters to the point where I almost lost my whole career, when I injured my arm, where I defied all odds, and I wasn't supposed to operate for six months to a year. I was operating in three weeks because I took my health and my own hands. And in terms of manufacturing, specifically, when COVID hit, and I had 90 days where I could not produce a dollar in my practice, yet I had all of these full arches that I had started that were time to be restored. Now, okay, if I have 20 arches that need to be restored, okay, 20 arches that say $5,000 an arch, do the math. It's 100K, right? Yeah, it's 100K, and that's each month. That's $300,000 that I would have had to come up with out of my operating account when the practice is not making any money to restore these patients. And if I hadn't set up myself to be able to manufacture this on my own with my own time, which all I had was time during COVID, who knows if I would still be open? Who knows if I would have the savings that I have? Who knows if I would have had what I had? Who knows? Because dentistry is almost like a restaurant business. If you don't plan correctly, you could be done in a month if you don't have the reserves to be able to be there. And in full-arch dentistry, it's not like general dentistry where you okay, you'll just keep cranking the single crowns. You could have a CEREC; you could outsource the crown to China for like, I don't know, 20 bucks, 10 bucks and still survive. But when you're in full-arch game, there's no laboratory that's not going to do this for like less than $3,000 that you would be proud of putting this in the mouth, right? An average $5000, a good one, $10,000. Like that's just what it costs now, you have no income, and you owe these people these restorations, and that money is gone. What are you doing? So I felt that that was the first thing. And the other thing is that I really enjoy it. Like I told you in the beginning, I was like, I felt like a hypocrite when I put it into people's mouths, and it wasn't me that did it, because the patients don't know that there's a lab technician behind it. They're like when they think the lab, they think it's a room in your office. They don't, they think it's all you. And when they said, oh my God, Dr. John, you did such a good job. They never say that when they look at the X-rays of my implants, where they look at the margins of my crowns, because that's really what means we did a good job. Our impression was right, our placement was correct, but then we'll look at the thickness of our tissue. They don't look at the occlusion. They don't know any of this stuff. They just look at the aesthetics of the teeth. And I never did that; it's hypocritical on a daily basis. So again, my dream was always to work with the lab technician in my office, but we just don't speak the same language. Dentists and lab technicians don't speak the same language on a general basis. They just don't. There's like this massive animosity, the technicians taking too much from the dentist. The dentist is making too much compared to the lab. And it's this constant battle. And I tried, man. I tried for years to get people to work. I've had in-house lab technicians. I've had conversations with labs. They're not bad people. We just speak two completely different languages, and we're doing the exact same thing. So, for me, I just felt like it wasn't going to be successful. So I needed to figure out to do that. And I'm also very impatient. Like if I put in a prototype on Monday, I want to finish the case on Thursday. I don't want to think about it anymore. I finish the case. On to the next one, on to the next one, on to the next one. And that's the freedom that this gives me. I like, I love freedom, I hate owing anybody money. I hate having to rely on somebody else. And there's so many things we have to rely on as it is in a dental office. The less I have to rely, the better it is for me. That's awesome.

Dr. Noel Liu:
So what's next for you and your XCell products? I'm always looking forward, like, what's coming up.

Dr. Jonathan Abenaim:
The two latest things that we came out with is I redesigned the scan body. You know, I was the first one to ever invent and patent a cup specific scan body. You know, scan body is one of the biggest errors that Intraoral scans has is that the scan body isn't picked up correctly. So with my teeth's caps, they will always be picked up, and the triangles will always be perfect. So we came up with the scan body. When I originally made it, I put a really small head on top to be able to temporize very easily, but we found in some cases that if you scan too fast because it's so small, the scanner doesn't pick it up as sharp. So what we did was we changed the head to be our beloved scan body, which was my original scan body. It still has a different cuff heights. It has different colors. I've also invented something called the Power Tax screw that allows you to I love those reference your bite reference your pre-op and post-op. We made it in two pieces. You can even use the power screw if you buy the one piece. As a bone generation guide to be able to let you to take a bone out, it's the only bone tacking screw that is multidirectional that you don't have to screw it in, like with a Phillips head, and go straight through. It has my Powerball head on top, so you can change the angle to 30 degrees. So if the patient is back there and you can't get your instrument back, you can still angle it and be able to get it in. So imagine going like this to the side of the head. And not having to put the screw through the patient's cheek. And that's really it. We have Powerwall 2.0, which, surprisingly, a lot of people haven't jumped on. I think it's just a really better screw. I have no, 1.0 is amazing.

Dr. Noel Liu:
What's the difference with a 1.0 and 2.0?

Dr. Jonathan Abenaim:
Yeah. So the difference between 1.0 and 2.0 is that the screw is exactly the same. The difference is the shaft on the inside has one extra feature. You know, as our world is going to hell is on fire, as I call it, money is getting very, very tight. And you know that it's getting tight and in full-arch dentistry, because what's happening is the companies are investing so much money in what we call these resin materials to be able to print in-house, be able to generate this in-house. And really, that's really led by people not having enough money to pay for full arches. And dentists, I need to figure because they don't know how to mill, because they don't know how to layer porcelain, they know how to do composite. So if they can buy a printer for $10,000 and they can use a resin that's as strong as enamel, if not stronger, then it should make sense, and I should start to use it. The problem is, is that how do they hold these things in? And if you use a tie based on any printed or PMMa material, it just doesn't work. It will dibond it will break less on resin wear more on PMMa, but when it does dibond, the restoration is cooked. So what we found was these restorations innately resin more than PMMa, because again, PMMa you still got a mill, but more people are using resins innately. These resins, they're flexible. It's just the way they are. They're very, very, very flexible. And what happens is when the patient actually occludes on these, the restoration microscopically goes like this. And when the restoration microscopically goes like this, your screw goes like that. And then you're more likely to have screw loosening with any screw. Now you'll have the least amount of screw loosening with my screw. So what we've done is we've created this extra screw-loosening feature that you can use if you want. And the way that you would want to use it is if you actually talk Powerball 2.0 to 20 Newton centimeters, it acts exactly like Powerball 1.0. It uses the Powerball head to clamp down the restoration and hold everything down. Now, if you have a restoration that you're like, I know this guy isn't going to be in a long-term temp, or I know this guy's in zirconia, and he's really grinding, and he's more likely to screw loosening. The second you go to 25, the screw just goes just slightly deeper into the seat. It engages a very, very small five-degree cone to allow it to have that extra screw-loosening feature, and that's really the difference.

Dr. Noel Liu:
So it could go up to 25.

Dr. Jonathan Abenaim:
Yes. These are the Powerball 2.0. I talked to 25 all the time because I want that extra feature.

Dr. Noel Liu:
And that's not available in 1.0.

Dr. Jonathan Abenaim:
No, because it's not part of the 1.0 body. The 1.0 body is just, is a parallel shaft. And the reason it's a parallel shaft is because all of the forces, instead of going to the thread, it will go to the thicker part of the Powerball, which is right under the head of the Powerball. And you'll see when Powerball screw breaks, it never breaks deep down, like all other abutment screws which can never get out, it will break right at the top so that you can actually use an explorer and just turn it out. You can see it. It's designed that way. A lot of people don't know. They're like, oh, I buy the Powerball screw. It's good screw. It's bigger, it looks great. But there's so many things that I built into this. Why? Because I have problems. I'm a practicing dentist. And you said in the past, you know, you tried so many different systems. All the other systems are not invented by dentists. And if they are quote-unquote invented by dentists, they either copied me, or they're just regurgitating corporate words. That's just the truth, and they know it, and I know it. And my system was developed from the ground up, from my years of experience and my years of messing up and my years of learning what's right and what's wrong, and really building all that in. And for us, as dentists, to rely on some engineer at Nobel, at Straumann, at Three-i, at Zimmer, at all of these implant companies, to actually create anything is ridiculous because they don't live what we live, you know, they don't live. That's why I would say the best practice management software is the one created by dentists. The best impression material is probably the one created by dentists. All of these things that dentists create is because we know the problem and nobody can understand. I can tell you my problem, right, doc? But if you don't live my problem, your head's not going to be like this. You're going to be like, what is he talking about? But the whole podcast, you're going like this because you live my life and I live your life. We live together. We have the same issues. I don't care where in the world you are. It's the same thing.

Dr. Noel Liu:
You know, it reminds me of that part when one day when I was ordering those VHS scan bodies, remember that tax crew? And then I can't remember if you remember or not, but I was, like, using breadcrumbs. And, you know, those little breadcrumbs are, like, all over the place. And when I saw that VHS, and I'm like, all right, what do I do with this VHS? Is it a scan body, or is it, you know, I use it for reference? And you were like, hey, you can use it for both. And I was like, man, this is awesome. I mean, you know, these are the kind of things that I was like, you know, just wowed by when I saw your product, seriously.

Dr. Jonathan Abenaim:
And true or false? Are you wowed about it because you think it's cool? Or are you wowed by it because it solved the problem that you had?

Dr. Noel Liu:
It solved every single issues I had with full-arch. So my photogrammetry, that's the first thing I was telling him, my photogrammetry went out the window. I mean, what's the point? I mean, literally, I can say this factually that you saved me 40 grand from investing into one, right? I was having my lab guy come in, and he kept telling me, hey, why don't you go buy one? You know, you go buy one. And I have, like, you know, multiple locations. I cannot buy a photogrammetry for every single location. It doesn't make sense. And your system helped me scale. My man, I mean, I can say that wholeheartedly. Your system helped me scale every single location, so thank you, man.

Dr. Jonathan Abenaim:
I'm so happy to hear that because, you know, I told you in the beginning about changing the brand of dentistry. Dentists, they practice by themselves, at least for me. I'm a solo practitioner. I have a small team. I have one office. I'm busy enough; thank God I used to have three offices. It was too much for me. It doesn't work for my brain, but one of the goals that I created for this was like, there's just so many patients I can treat. There's just so many lives that I can change. But if I can create something that other dentists can use, not only will I make the dentists' life easier, but they will change other people's lives. So whenever I see a restoration with my Powerball screw, that use my system, you do not understand how happy it makes me. Not because you send me 200 bucks to buy these parts. I don't give a shit about that. That's not what I'm in it for.

Dr. Noel Liu:
... Value.

Dr. Jonathan Abenaim:
Is because I can change your life. Like when I die, you'll remember that I had an impact on you, and I never met you in person. And your patient that's walking around with a restoration with my screw or my process, I made an impact on them through you. And to me, that's everything. That's my reason. Other than my family, that's my reason for being. If I can make an impact on people and make the world a better place with what I thought of that God gave me, I'm good. I'm happy. That's all I want.

Dr. Noel Liu:
That's preach, man. Hey, so I want to end with this one thing here. You got a course coming up in August. What's that about? And who's it for?

Dr. Jonathan Abenaim:
Yes, so it's FullArchRaw.com. It's going to be in Miami Florida on August 8th and ninth. I am going to be partnering with one of my students, Dr. Ryan Dunlop, who has really taken digital dentistry to another level, to a point where him and I get the same results. Mine's better, but him and I try to find the same result, but he does it in a completely different manner. And when I talk about a different manner, that means that the way that he acquires data, the way that he manufactures, you know, the size of the people that he uses, meaning how big is his office, right? He's taken his methods and created massive institute to be able to do that and gives courses all the time, and that's what he loves to do. He has multiple associates, and it teaches. And what you'll learn is you'll be able to learn full-arch digital dentistry from marketing, from acquisition, from milling. I have a section on how to close. If a patient says to you, I need to talk to my wife, what do you say to them? You say, okay, fine, call me back. Patient says, oh, let me think about it. What do you say? And in full-arch dentistry, it's different than a single crown. And I'll have a whole section on how to close. I'll have a whole section. Um, Ryan's going to do a whole section on marketing. I'm going to be doing a section on Intraoral scans. I can say to you, I'm gonna say this. If you're brand new in this game, it's gonna be way over your head.

Dr. Noel Liu:
Got it.

Dr. Jonathan Abenaim:
If you want to be like, wow, come. If you're in this game and you're like, I've done a couple arches, I want to scale these arches. I don't know what to buy, how to do it, where I should go, intraoral photogrammetry. If I should even go into this, which is probably everybody in this world, come to this. If you're just a general dentist that doesn't even want to have anything to do with full-arch, it's not for you. If you're a general dentist that doesn't know what an intraoral scanner is, this is not for you. If you're a general dentist that doesn't understand what a multi-unit abutment is, this is not for you. If you're a general dentist that does implant dentistry, that does full-arch dentistry, not at a crazy level. Even if you do one arch a month or one arch a year, and you understand that you would love to do more of it because you enjoy it, this is where you want to go to, because it's going to be like a fire hose. Because usually, I give my course two days by myself. I now have to share the stage with somebody else and give the same amount of information.

Dr. Noel Liu:
So someone attending better be prepared.

Dr. Jonathan Abenaim:
You got to sleep a week before you come for this, but this is going to be, you know, it's going to be the truth. There's no corporate sponsors at all. There's nothing wrong with sponsors, but we want it to be able to just disseminate 100% the truth. That's it. Like, this is what it is. This is what we're going to do. This is what we do. And you can ask any question. The location is unbelievable. We rented out a movie theater. Super high-end movie theater with reclining seats. You're going to have your private waiter come and bring you food. Unlimited popcorn, unlimited drinks. It's not going to be like sloppy food. You're going to order from a menu. They're going to bring it to your seat. It's going to be like super high-end.

Dr. Noel Liu:
So wait a minute, you're going to have this course in a movie theater.

Dr. Jonathan Abenaim:
This is a show, and it's not just random movie theater with shitty seats. Imagine like Emirates first-class seats and stuff. Full reclining couch, full table, full food, unlimited popcorn. Because this is really going to be a show, and it's going to be something in dentistry that nobody's ever done. And mark my words, after I do this course, everyone's going to rent a movie theater because it's genius. The screen is huge, the seats are amazing, the seats are amazing. Everything is just going to be great. The food is there. The location is in Miami, Florida. I mean, why not? We have a couple spots left. I think there's like 7 or 8 spots left, and then it's over. I can add your chair anymore, but you legit, if you're not going to come for the education, come for the entertainment, because you're gonna love this.

Dr. Noel Liu:
You said August 7th and 8th, right?

Dr. Jonathan Abenaim:
August 8th and 9th. Thursday, Friday.

Dr. Noel Liu:
8th and 9th. Okay.

Dr. Jonathan Abenaim:
8th and 9th. It's not a weekend. 8th and 9th. You get the weekend to chill with your family.

Dr. Noel Liu:
Got it, August 8th and 9th. Let me see. That's a Thursday and Friday.

Dr. Jonathan Abenaim:
Yeah.

Dr. Noel Liu:
Oh, man. You enticing me on this here.

Dr. Jonathan Abenaim:
You, your friends, anybody who's gonna come. I'm telling you, this is gonna be. It's even a time to just relax with like-minded people, with like-minded people. Because the people I can tell you, the people that registered, they are amazing. It's like a mastermind of the best of the best that come to these courses, because they know. And to be the best, you want to be with the best so that you can be better and better and better.

Dr. Noel Liu:
Alrighty, I'm definitely gonna try my best to block that calendar, man. I mean, this sounds amazing. Who else? And then the guy who's actually, I'm using his system, right?

Dr. Jonathan Abenaim:
You have all the answers in front of you. The only one that can stop you is yourself.

Dr. Noel Liu:
Exactly 1,000%. Hey, Jonathan. Thank you so much. I mean, this was an honor and a pleasure to hear your story and the whole process. This is such a great, great thing.

Dr. Jonathan Abenaim:
Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate that.

Dr. Noel Liu:
I'm definitely going to put your link up and also the link to the course as well. So, any last tips before you go?

Dr. Jonathan Abenaim:
All I can say is we live in a world of social media where what you think you see is real, and it may or may not give you anxiety about it. All I can say to you is love what you do, have passion, and I promise you everything will work out. Don't worry about all the noise. Don't worry about everything else. There's going to be challenges, but you can barrel right through them, as long as you love what you do, you are passionate, and you have the right people around you. So check those three boxes and I promise you you'll be successful.

Dr. Noel Liu:
Man, that's preach right there. I appreciate you.

Dr. Jonathan Abenaim:
Thank you so much.

Dr. Noel Liu:
Hey everyone, we're going to land the plane. This was an amazing, amazing episode. Definitely check us out on our next one and make sure to like and subscribe. We'll see you next time.

Dr. Noel Liu:
Thanks for tuning in to the Secure Dental Podcast. We hope you found today's podcast inspiring and useful to your practice and financial growth. For Show Notes, resources, and ways to stay engaged with us, visit us at NoelLiuDDs.com. That's N O E L L I U D D S.com.

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About Noel Liu:

Noel Liu, a graduate of NYU College of Dentistry, is a highly skilled and compassionate general dentist and co-founder of Secure Dental with multiple locations. With years of experience in the field, Dr. Liu has established a reputation as a trusted and knowledgeable dental professional.

 

In addition to his dental practices, Dr. Liu is also very passionate about mentoring and guiding his associate doctors in their transition from students to clinicians.  He has built a successful framework for model, mimic, and mastery flow to help them achieve their personal, professional, and financial goals and efficiencies.

Things You’ll Learn:

  • This podcast is for dental professionals looking to make the most out of their dental career, their wealth, and freedom.
  • Entrepreneurs usually learn how to grow their business the hard way. 
  • The Secure Dental Podcast is available everywhere you find your favorite podcast shows. 
  • Secure Dental will publish two episodes per month. 

Resources:

  • Connect with and follow Dr. Noel Liu on LinkedIn.
  • Check out Dr. Noel’s website.
  • Visit Secure Dental’s website and learn more about them!