Secure Dental_Dr. Jim Arnold: Audio automatically transcribed by Sonix

Secure Dental_Dr. Jim Arnold: this mp3 audio file was automatically transcribed by Sonix with the best speech-to-text algorithms. This transcript may contain errors.

Dr. Noel Liu:
Welcome to the Secure Dental Podcast. Through conversations with the brightest minds in the dental and business communities, we'll share practical tips you can use to scale your practice and create financial freedom for yourself and your family. My name is Dr. Noel Liu, CEO and Dentist at Secure Dental, and also co-founder of DentVia. I'm your host for the Secure Dental podcast, and I'm so glad you're joining in.

Dr. Noel Liu:
Hey, hey, welcome, everybody, to another episode of our Secure Dental podcast, where we bring in many different talents from both inside and outside our dental industry. And today I have a very special guest, Dr. Jim Arnold. I've known this guy for, I don't know, a few years now. We hardly meet, but I feel like I know him pretty well, and I'll let him be the judge of that. So Dr. Arnold has been in the dental industry for over 20-plus years, and he had his own dental practice in Valparaiso, Indiana. He's the guy who knows his stuff when it comes to private equity, trying to grow, practice, leadership as well as team development. So, without taking the thunder away, I'm going to pass the mic off to Jim and let him do all the talking there. Jim, the floor is yours.

Dr. Jim Arnold:
All right, man. Hey, it's good to see you again. Like you said, we've known each other for a few years, but we hardly ever run into each other. And that's why it was great to see you when we were in Orlando for Pod Fest and to reconnect today. So, like you said, I'm in Valparaiso, Indiana, just outside of Chicago, and over the years grew to just a little three-group practice. And it was a lot of fun. We had some amazing teams build something special. And I guess about ten years ago, we did sell to private equity, joined a traditional DSO, and transitioned into that next stage of the career. I always had a vision that at 50, I'd probably be done with clinical dentistry, because I felt like I crammed a 30-year career in about eight years, and just was really excited to parlay all that experience, all those relationships, the wins, the losses, the good, the bad into whatever came next in the industry. And so that's what I've been focused on for the past few years, and it's been really exciting.

Dr. Noel Liu:
So I want to take you back in time. Not that far back, but let's say, when you opened up your first practice, what was the thought process behind it, and what were your goals and aspirations at that time?

Dr. Jim Arnold:
Hey, that's a great question. I graduated in the '96, and I was an associate and kind of a mom-and-pop practice for three years. Be honest, I came out of dental school, like a lot of us, without any business skills, without any great communication skills, without having learned about leadership. And so those three years were a good time for me to just learn as much as I could. And I learned a lot of good things, and I learned some bad things, but I saw a lot of potential in that practice, so I stuck it out and bought that practice in '99. My thought process was, hey, this practice does really well, but it could do a heck of a lot better, and we can do better dentistry, which is good for everybody. So I put together a plan, and over the next couple of years, we really actually, in the first year we doubled it, which was easier because I knew all the patients pretty well and had developed those relationships. But within a few years, we'd outgrown that and bought a second practice. And then a few years after that, we bought a third practice. But during all of that time, we also had four kids come to the table. And I was doing 300 hours of CE a year, and then I was teaching. And so life was crazy during that magical decade. We, during that time, of course, professionally, we had a lot of irons on the fire, and with the kids growing up and all that sort of thing, it became a challenge just to find that balance, try to find a happy medium between running a business, doing dentistry, doing some teaching, and raising four kids. And so, right when we just about had a handle on it, the three practices were flowing really well, like doubled or gone from zero to over a million within the first year. We thought, hey, why not take on the sport of triathlon also? So my wife and I, in the middle of this crazy busyness, got into triathlon, and we don't know anything. Partway we got in and started training 20 hours a week for full Ironman, and so we had a very busy about 2000 until 2013 or so. And then, in 2015, we decided it was time to slow down a little bit, and that's when we decided to go ahead and sell our practices.

Dr. Noel Liu:
Amazing. I want to pick your brain a little bit here. We get asked a lot of times by dentists, our colleagues, right? What took you from zero to doubling your practice? Because that's a question that a lot of people ask. And then they want to go like, hey, is it a good time to invest in a second practice? What would be your take on why stick with the first, why open a second, or why not open a second? And how do you double? Because a lot of people are in the same boat and they want to grow, but they don't exactly know. So, what would you share or like to pitch in? What was your forte?

Dr. Jim Arnold:
I think that you look at every practice differently because every practice has a different kind of signature. And once you understand what's going on in that practice, then you can devise a plan to grow it and just make it better whether it's systems, whether it's your team, whether it's efficiency, whether it's clinical. Everybody has different needs. And in our case, there were a lot of needs. And so literally spent a year prior to buying that practice, putting together a really detailed plan. And part of that plan was really educating ourselves as well, because most of us, again, we come out of school without those business skills, leadership skills, communication skills. So, I spent probably 70 hours a week just learning everything I could. I picked up some great mentors, and those mentors helped fast-track that growth. Because again, if you come out and you don't have those things because they're not automatic, find people who have done what you want to do and learn from their successes, learn from their mistakes, and try to fast track things. And that's exactly what we did in terms of then taking it from one practice to a second practice. And you've been through this to a lot more, but that first to second sometimes is is the hardest, because when we felt like we got things running really smoothly, really efficiently, we're in a good place. We're making a lot of money, we're doing great dentistry, we've got great relationships. Why change? But that second practice, surprisingly, is what really freed us up, because, at that point, we were able to hire another dentist who then was able to split time, which then freed me up to spend a little bit more time managing things. And then the third practice rolled around. Guess what? I had two high performance teams, and all of a sudden I had managers who could start to manage, and then I got to lead. I think a lot of us follow that path. You go from being an engineer to being a manager and then ultimately being going to a leadership position. And in my case, it wasn't necessarily that well thought out, but that was the natural progression of things. And I don't know about you. For me, that's a natural place to be where you don't have to do all of the heavy lifting necessarily, but you've got that vision, and you've got that team, and then you're able to put them in positions to be successful, and from there, sky's the limit, as you can do anything.

Dr. Noel Liu:
Man, you touch on a lot of points. And I was just, you said it so casually, but the audience listening to it. You spoke something about systems, processes, having a dynamic team, right? And then the biggest one was getting a mentor. And I think you cannot argue the fact that mentor would help you accelerate and compress time. The other fact that I like what you just said was find somebody who's done what you want to do. And Jim, man. Come on. You and I, we both know there's too many gurus out there in this industry that he's preaching stuff that they haven't even done.

Dr. Jim Arnold:
It's true. Hey, man, you're absolutely right. It's crazy. When you're a young dentist, you don't necessarily know who's legit, who isn't, who's really talking the talk and walking the walk. And you know, it's so funny because that does bring me right to that next point, that early stage, because I was out there literally doing 300 hours a year, and see, I was dragging my team all over the country. We were spending 100, 200 grand a year on education, but what it did was it exposed me to a lot of different people and a lot of different leaders. And at one point, I'm not even exaggerating. I literally had a list of 17 mentors. And here's the trick I think it's important to know what everybody's good at, because there aren't that many that are like all rounders who can do it all really well. But I learned to recognize, oh man, this guy is really good at this, and she's really good at that, but they're not necessarily good at these other things. So, I picked and chose what I wanted to learn from each of those people. And for me, that helped me put it all together into something that worked for me. And I think that for a lot of people, that's what it is. Don't necessarily trust a guru for everything, but pick and choose what you want to learn from different people and put it together into a system that is going to work well for you because we're all different, right?

Dr. Noel Liu:
100%. One point: I really love what you just said. Once when we start, we get our first practice. It's like we are an entrepreneur, right? We are wearing all the hats. Yeah, we are an engineer. I love that analogy because a lot of times we as dentists, we get lost in that arena. And what happens is we never tend to grow ourselves into the leadership position. And that's where I think, personally, I think you nailed it. A lot of people get stuck in there. So you went from that progression. I just want you to explain that pathway. How does someone recognize, you said you recognized a need, and you said you recognized, like you wanted to move up what was behind the scenes that was going on in your head? And was it a coincidence, or was it something which you've gotten through your mentors or you studied, like with all that key hours that you had?

Dr. Jim Arnold:
I think it's a little bit of everything, to be honest. It's one of those things where I didn't come out with clear vision of what I wanted to do. I have friends who did. They knew in their third year of dental school exactly what they wanted to do, and had a really good sense as to how they wanted to do it. And I wasn't one of those guys. I really didn't to some degree. There was some luck involved kind of being in the right place at the right time, but we also create our own luck, right, in the right room with the right people having the right conversations. And one thing has always been true of me: I want to be in a room with people who are more successful than me, or who are doing something better than me, because that's where you learn and grow. If you feel like you're an eight and you're in a room full of threes, you're going to go down to their level. But if you're an eight and you want to be a ten, hang out with a ten. And those are the people who are going to not only inspire you and elevate your vision, but they're the ones that are going to give you the roadmap to actually go there. And I got really good at that early on at recognizing who I wanted to spend my time with, because what do they say? Like we are a product of the six people we spend the most time with or something like that. And so I was really focused, and I'm even more focused on that now because look, as we age, you know, I'm 55, which I feel very young anyway. But at 55.

Dr. Noel Liu:
You are my friend. You are.

Dr. Jim Arnold:
You got to spend those hours, like really intelligently. I go into a week like mid-winter, and I'm going to be up there. I'm going to have five nights in the city. Well, I've got all those booked, and they're booked with people or groups where I. It's just where I need to be, because those are the conversations I need to have for the aspirations that I have moving forward in life. And I just don't want to take time that's going to pull me down or pull me back or hold me back, if that makes sense.

Dr. Noel Liu:
1,000%, and I love the fact that you said you want to hang around with people that are higher and much better than you, so how does somebody go ahead and find something like this, like a mastermind group or guys who are level ten and I'm a level five? How does somebody go about finding it? And a lot of times if they do find it, they are like, oh shoot, man, it's too expensive. What are your thoughts on that?

Dr. Jim Arnold:
Look, man, I think intentionality is the first part of that. Whether you're reading something, watching something, listening to something, surfing the net, searching, searching social media, whatever, we know who's out there. Most of us know what the resources are. And if don't, we talk to somebody who does love it and get that little tip, get that kind of direction, and then be intentional about seeking out those relationships. And to your point, yeah, man, you got to invest in yourself. You are the best investment that you will ever make. And if you don't invest in yourself by seeking out and usually paying those mentors or paying to being a mastermind of brilliant people who help you raise your game, then you're not going to go anywhere. Whether you're investing time, money, effort. Nothing comes for free, man. There is really like no shortcut is going to take work, it's going to take determination, and it's going to take focus, and you better have all three.

Dr. Noel Liu:
I love something you just said. Nothing is free. I heard this phrase that if it's for free, you're the product.

Dr. Jim Arnold:
You know what? And I don't know, I think everybody's probably been there at some point and.

Dr. Noel Liu:
Oh, yes, old.

Dr. Jim Arnold:
And as gray as I am. And you figure those things out and where you are in the food chain or in the ecosystem. And as long as you're aware of where you're at now and you know where you want to go, well, and you can chart a course to get to that place. And when you find those people you vibe with, and you really respect, and you love what they've done, man, stick with them and just follow the path. Why create something new? Unless you're like a super creative type and you want to reinvent the wheel, that is awesome. More power to you. I'm not really that guy, man. I would much rather duplicate genius than reinvent the wheel any day, because that's what fast tracks you in terms of your trajectory professionally.

Dr. Noel Liu:
100%. And you're so true, because at this point, when somebody is better, or you recognize that person, age does not matter. There are so many guys out there who are way younger than us, and they know a whole lot more than us, right? Sure. So, Jim, you and I, we've been in this position where we've seen younger guys. They are killing it. So, if we are not doing what they're doing, I think we need to hang around with them. And that's I think a lot of times people have it in their minds that, oh well, yeah, I'm old enough. I probably am wiser or I know a little bit more. That's the wrong mentality.

Dr. Jim Arnold:
You know what it is. And I'll be honest, I've gone through that. When you go from early 30s, like being a student and then turning into the teacher, and you've been there, done everything, and you've hung out with all the right people, had all the right conversations I did. I went through a little period there where I'm like, hey, man. Like, yeah, I'm going to go here. There's really not that much to learn, and that is the wrong mentality. And it didn't last long, fortunately, because I'm like you said, I don't care who it is, humble yourself out and you go straight to that source and figure out how are they doing this or why are they doing this? Where are they going? And do I want to do something similar? And you're right, I don't care if you're 29 or 59, if you got what I want, if you're doing what I want to do, I want to be in your orbit and learn from you 1,000%.

Dr. Noel Liu:
You just nailed it right in the head. And guy like you, seriously, I feel like you've taken it to the next level with all your experiences. And what I'm thinking here is, what are you doing with all this knowledge that you have, right? And I would, and I want to change gears a little bit. So, I see that you've founded these two ventures: Luxury Dental Retreats and Foundation Dental Services. With all that past knowledge, all that experience that you had, and all the stuff that you went through. What made you go with these two ventures, and what are you doing with these two?

Dr. Jim Arnold:
Man, great question. And you know, again, everything that we do in life, a lot of it is very intentional, and you follow the set path and you just do it. And sometimes you stumble onto something. Sometimes, you think about something in a moment, and you change courses. The zig-zag principle. Sure. And in my case, it was a lot of that because I really felt like everything I had done in my career led up to where I would just get into the DSO space. Be an executive helped grow, and I've done that. I have private equity friends who bought me out, and I helped them launch four different DSOs. And it was really awesome because I learned so much. Like I helped some of my friends get really good deals. I learned about deal structure, I learned about how that works, blah blah blah blah blah. And then I became an exec in a DSO for one year. And nothing against the people, nothing against the company. But that wasn't the lifestyle that I wanted. I was on the road four days a week, 201 Marriott nights in one year. That's too much. But what I've learned through all of that learned a lot of things. But what I learned and was most important was I have a lot of value to give based upon what I have done. But it's not all about giving. I've also got to receive. I've got to really enjoy what I'm doing. I got to feel like I'm not just creating value for everybody else, but I'm creating value for myself and for my family. So, let's start with Luxury Dental Retreats. Last summer, I was just, I was really thinking about it, and I was actually talking with a mentor, and he asked some really good questions because I was a little bit unclear about what I wanted to do next. And I always loved the education space as a student, as an educator, I got a lot of both of those. Loved it. What did I love most? Small group learning and teaching. Because in small groups, you can roll up your sleeves and get real. You can really dig in when you've only got 8 to 10 people in the room, and people are much more likely to be open about their own struggles, their own challenges, or their own successes. And when you got 8 to 10 people in the room who are really open from a business and a personal standpoint, there is maximum room for growth. And that was always the case with me. And so I am now putting dentists in those kind of situations where there aren't 20 or 30 or 100 people in the room, there's 8 to 10. And again, we can go deep, we can go deep on everything, and everybody is fully transparent and helping one another. And you could say that's how a mastermind works. You know, as a general rule. And our education, two things. One, it is very conversational education. I have a faculty of nine, and they each have something different that they bring to the table. So we set up these retreats with different content and different speakers at each one. So there's a little bit of something for everybody. You can look at the menu and say, hey man, I really want to learn more about communication. So I'm going to go to this retreat. Oh, hey man, like these guys are really good, and I want to learn more about clinical and maybe about planning my exit strategy. I want to go to Dubai. That's going to be amazing. And so I really wanted to give dentists options to learn in that kind of an environment from the very best niche experts in all of those topics. But you know what? I'm a travel snob, man. I've been doing luxury travel with my family for 25 years, and I like to travel in style. It's not enough for me to just go someplace and do this. You can do that and create value, and you can get great value in a conference center, in a hotel, or at McCormick place. There's value to be found everywhere. But I find when you get away from home, like maybe out of the country, and you're in a luxury situation where you're being catered to, treated like a VIP with your little tribe man, the opportunity for growth is unlimited while you enjoy your time there. Maybe you're getting a massage. Maybe you're out on the water for the afternoon after having learned for five hours in the morning. But the best of both worlds: education and vacation. And that's what I'm really passionate about right now.

Dr. Noel Liu:
Wow, wow. So this stuff here is totally different from traditional dental CE courses, right? Like, you guys are out in a resort or something.

Dr. Jim Arnold:
For the most part, we're doing like luxury villas where we're all staying under one roof and there aren't a lot of distractions. It's us, and a chef, and a concierge. Maybe a massage therapist, and we're just, like, getting into it, but we're all there together. So, like, I have one coming up in nine days, I'm going to be in Puerto Vallarta with a group of doctors, and we will be learning amazing things in terms of personal growth. We're going to get into body, being, balance, and business, and those four categories control everything. And some of us have 1 or 2 of them dialed in, or maybe even three of them. But everybody's got room for growth. And let's be honest, we have room for growth in all of those areas. Of course, in a situation like that where we can, like, really get into it and teach frameworks, figure out where we're at today. And 72 hours later, we figured out where we are, where we want to go, and we have a detailed blueprint to get to where we want to go in all four categories. So I'm pretty fired up about that 1 in 9 days.

Dr. Noel Liu:
How often do you have this in a year?

Dr. Jim Arnold:
I have five on the calendar right now with.

Dr. Noel Liu:
For the, for 2025.

Dr. Jim Arnold:
Yep. Yep. Exactly. Wow.

Dr. Noel Liu:
Okay.

Dr. Jim Arnold:
It's a lot. It's definitely a lot. It's a lot of moving parts, but I'm really passionate about it. I mean, it's one of those things that is fun. And you're going to get the best ROI that you're going to get anywhere else. Because again, and.

Dr. Noel Liu:
Like you said, man, it's an investment in yourself.

Dr. Jim Arnold:
That's right. Exactly, exactly. And when you have direct access where you're sitting like five feet away and you stop the speaker and say, hey, here's my situation. And then it's a dialogue rather than a monologue. Very casual, conversational education straight from the source where they're doing what you want to do. And we're going to give you the path to get there.

Dr. Noel Liu:
Man, it's like power. Proximity. That's what I believe in. Love it.

Dr. Jim Arnold:
Exactly. Tony Robbins talks about that all the time. You want to be in the right room.

Dr. Noel Liu:
Right. So, I'm going to take it. One other venture, right? So the Foundation Dental Services. What's that about?

Dr. Jim Arnold:
I have seen the good, bad, and the ugly in the industry when it comes to practice transitions. I've played a role in maybe 60 or 70 transitions at some level. I've bought personally, corporately. I've sold personally and corporately. I've made every mistake you could possibly make, and I've done a lot of things really well. I've learned a lot from that. Well, when you look at the things that have happened since the pandemic started, like it used to be, this bulletproof thing you sell, you had the multiple, and you've got equity, and you're going to get like this big payout, all that kind of stuff. Well, then you throw a monkey wrench into it. 1 in 100-year global health crisis, and then you throw in some mismanagement, then you maybe throw in some greed. And a lot of these groups got out in front of those skis. They took on too much debt, and all of a sudden, cash flow got cut off for ten weeks. And when you get upside down like that, bad things tend to happen. And so you've seen it as much as I have over the last five years, there have been a lot of situations where these PE-backed DSOs have fallen flat on their face and have lost millions. These are things that are devastating doctors, things that are changing the trajectory of their lives or their families' lives, and they had no control over it. They had no voice. They had no control. It was all controlled by the Wall Street type. Not that there's anything wrong with that. Look, man, like everybody, I think has good intentions, but sometimes we're not aligned in terms of the direction, and how you go about being successful, and what I have found, even the best of them, they're not always properly aligned. Me, on the other hand, you and I, we're dentists. We've been there. We've done that with our blood, sweat, and tears. We have grown businesses, and we know how to do that, and we know that the relationship capital. The people are the most critical part of that equation. And, unfortunately, very often, I have seen, and it's not always this way, but too often, people are looked at as expendable. They're just another expense on the spreadsheet. And to me, that relationship capital is everything. Whether you're talking about the relationship with the dentist, the office manager, the hygienist, the assistant, it doesn't matter. Like the longer they've been there and the better they are at what they do, the more important they are to your business. And so anyway, now I'm partnering with doctors, and I have started a doctor-owned and operated group that is on the same page. Like, I know where you're at. I know what your concerns are. I know what you need, and I'm not going to come in and screw it up. We're going to keep doing what you've done to be successful. Now, there are things that you can do to scale and centralize that make things easier and better. But guess what? You do not mess around with that secret sauce. You keep things rolling, and then you're additive rather than subtractive, if that makes sense.

Dr. Noel Liu:
So you said a doctor-owned partnership model, right? What does that entail? So just somebody coming off the street like a layman, they go like, hey, you know what? I have an office and I'm hearing your podcast. What is it that you exactly do? And what are you bringing to the table? And what is the doctor partner bringing to the table?

Dr. Jim Arnold:
Well, we're forming a real partnership where we work together for the betterment of the practice, and the team, and the patients. We're properly aligned in that. We both recognize that practices need constant investment. You can't absolutely decline because you're trying to increase your EBITDA number. You increase your EBITDA number by growing the top line. You don't. Look, we all want to save cut down on our overhead, and stuff like that. That's fine as long as you're not counting paper clips every day. And I find that too often in the corporate world, All they look at is that maybe 1% or 2% they can shave off the bottom to maybe grow EBITDA a little bit. But if you do that at the expense of the top line, guess what? You're shooting yourself in the foot. And you know how many times I've seen that in the corporate world. Take a $36 million dollar group, and within two years, you've run it down to a $27 million dental group because you're forcing stuff down their throats as opposed to saying, all right, man, you got the formula. Things are going well. Every practice is a little different. Let's just keep rolling with that and let's communicate. Let's be partners and figure out how can we take it to the next level, as opposed to saying, hey man, I know you've done this well, but I'm smarter than you, and I'm just going to start doing this. I'm all about being collaborative. Let's grow the top line and save where we can. Economies of scale, it's a thing, but don't focus all of your attention on every paperclip or freaking glove. If you're used to wearing the same textured grip gloves your entire career and you love it. You got that feel. And corporate comes in and says, oh no, hey, I'm sorry you got to use these gloves because we're going to save $2,000 a year. Are you freaking kidding me? Now, how many things are going to slip out of my hand? You know how that can compromise care? Can you? You know how much that's going to piss me off and make me a lot less motivated? Do you know that when you start to cut costs and cut corners and all these other little areas, the team morale goes down? And guess what? This day and age, as well as I do, it is hard to recruit and retain top talent. And when you have top talent, they are priceless, man. You take care of them. You make sure your culture is on point because everybody needs money. It's important. But that culture and the feeling of appreciation that you're a part of something special, a part of a team and has some ownership in that process. You're going to stay forever, and you're going to produce. So that's what I'm all about 100%.

Dr. Noel Liu:
So, would you say that is probably the biggest mistakes a lot of people make when they buy or sell?

Dr. Jim Arnold:
I think so. You know.

Dr. Noel Liu:
Changing the culture and changing the systems.

Dr. Jim Arnold:
Yeah, absolutely. And so if I'm a selling doctor, obviously, when you build something, it's your life's work. You want to get maximum value for it, no doubt about it. That having been said, you better choose your partner just as carefully because you may get more money over here. But if they're a terrible partner and you're miserable, and they run it into the ground, guess what? That wasn't a good decision. And so I think there are a lot of things that you have to balance as a seller and say, look, here's a scenario where I love this partner. We're going to vibe like we're going to grow together. It's going to be really awesome. And if you can get the most money and have the right partner, then you're really hitting on all cylinders. And that's honestly that's what I'm creating right now. Because look, man, PE brings a lot of value to the table sometimes, but I would rather for the doctors to get the big payouts and not the PE, because even my friends, they're amazing and their integrity and they create value and I love them. We're still really good friends, but most of these groups, at the end of the day, like they are going to make 80% of the money for their investors, and that's what they do. And that's awesome. But I would prefer a situation where 80% or 100% stays with the dentist and their teams, as opposed to having to dole it all out to Wall Street.

Dr. Noel Liu:
No, 100%. Like, I look at it both ways, right? I don't see anything wrong with those PE groups. I don't see anything wrong with the dentist. They both have their own systems and own models. And yeah, of course, the PE has to make money for the investors because, eventually, that's exactly where the money is coming from, capital injection into the business. So I don't see any problems with that. But what I do see is like the dentist needs to stand, the ground needs to know the patient is sacred and just continue that path and have some sort of a marriage or a compromise, whatever you want to call it, between those two. Nothing wrong with profit.

Dr. Jim Arnold:
Yeah, no I agree. Look, you got to have it all. You gotta be a profitable business because then you can take better care of your patients.

Dr. Noel Liu:
100%.

Dr. Jim Arnold:
You upgrade your equipment. You can replace things when they need to be replaced. You can bring in new technology. You can get training. You can pay your superstar team well, right? All of that. But if you're not profitable, you can't do any of that, right?

Dr. Noel Liu:
100%. And that is one of the things that I really want to nail it down in people's head is like, profit is not bad. You need profit to make your pie bigger. So this way we can have more people enjoying the pie. And like you said, paying your top people, paying them well. Sorry. Without profit, you're not doing that.

Dr. Jim Arnold:
Yeah, exactly. It's your responsibility to be profitable because you will be a better dentist. You will have a better practice, you'll have a better team, and your patients are going to get a better product from you. Oh, and by the way, you can take care of your family. How many? Are there who are working? They're freaking working like dogs and doing stuff they're not very good at. Whether it is that business or the communication or the leadership. And that's okay. Look, we all have different skill sets and we all have different interests. But if you're that guy or woman who is working tirelessly around the clock to do all this stuff and you're miserable, and guess what? You're not making enough money. Well, it's time to make a change. And that change may be going to a private equity backed DSO because there are some good ones out there. They have their act together. They're doing things right. They're well aligned with the doctors and teams and that's like really commendable. And a lot of times, you're more comfortable in a doctor-to-doctor transaction where we like really get each other, and we're properly aligned. And I talked a little bit earlier about how sometimes that alignment can be a little bit off where you're trying to shave like half a percent off the bottom, instead of figuring out how to grow the top with the people that you have. And when you're on a 3 to 5-year cycle, like a lot of times they want to aggregate. Aggregate, aggregate, and then sell for a better multiple. That's awesome. And everybody can do really well with that. What sometimes gets lost in the shuffle is that investment into the practice, because, oh man, we can't invest $100,000 into this thing that will make us more money because we don't have enough years to really have that pay-off. And so $100,000 now is going to cost us $1 million or $1.5 million when we do a recap. But, if you're in it for the long haul, like, I'm not going to grow this for 3 to 5 years and flip it. This is long-term because you and I both know dental practices are very profitable when run properly with the right team, run properly. So why not aggregate build something really special, centralize some of the things doctors don't want to do, but then just keep going with it so you're not on that compressed time period. If you're on a longer time period, then you're properly aligned, and you'll continue to invest for growth indefinitely.

Dr. Noel Liu:
And that brings the next point where many of our colleagues, they have problems with its communication and leadership, right? These are the two aspects I want you to talk a little bit about leading a team, communicating their vision to the team, having that leadership role, and then how do they take all that and balance it with their family. So, like a work-life balance.

Dr. Jim Arnold:
Man, you just asked all the right questions man. Because when it comes to leadership, because.

Dr. Noel Liu:
They're all interrelated, right? You cannot just look at one in a vacuum. You have to put them all into perspective.

Dr. Jim Arnold:
You really do. And leadership does come down to having a very clear vision. Too often, people just aren't clear in what they want to do or where they want to go. And if you want to be a leader, you better get really clear about that. That doesn't mean that you might not change course at some point because the situation changes. Or maybe this didn't work the way you wanted it to. Whatever. But start with a clear vision, and then you've got to be able to communicate that clear vision to your team. And guess what? If you don't have a great team that's on the same page with you sharing that same vision, then you're never going to make it because we can't do it by ourselves. As a young dentist, I was a micromanager. I think, like a lot of dentists tend to be. But when I figured out that if you get the right people, you put them in the right position, and you give them all the tools to be successful. Holy cow. Sky is the limit. And then you're in a situation where you can delegate, but eventually, get to the point where you can delegate and trust. Because if the trust isn't there, you could yeah, you could have a list of things, hey, do this and pass it all off and create free time for yourself. But if you don't trust them, if you haven't equipped them to be successful with what you've delegated to them, then number one, it's not going to get done the right way. Number two, they're going to catch that you don't really trust them, and they're not going to be all in. And number three, you're just not going to go where you want to go. So when it comes to balance, then you got to have that team. You got to have people you can delegate to and trust. But you also, I think when your priority is your family as a father, like, it's really easy to get wrapped up in what we're doing and justify it like, hey man, this is about my family. I'm building for my family; I'm building for my family. But if you have that mentality too long, you're going to miss out on stuff. And guess what? Maybe you're making the money, but you're not giving them what they need, which is really you. And so you got to block off time and prioritize, because you and I both know you can work 24 hours a day easily. There's plenty of work to do. There's always plenty of work to do, but you can't do it at the expense of the people who are most important. So carve out that time to say, this is family time, and I'm not going to touch anything else. But you got to have that team in place, which comes down to leadership, so that you have the flexibility to do that. And then the last piece of that personal growth, like whatever it is, man, grow and learn. Always have a humble heart and know that you can always be better, do better, and invest in yourself. And I think you're going to be in a good place.

Dr. Noel Liu:
You nailed it, my friend. You nailed it. One of the problems that I see with many people, it's that scarcity mindset not willing to invest in the teams, not willing to invest in themselves. And that's an issue that we see all the time.

Dr. Jim Arnold:
It is.

Dr. Noel Liu:
So I just need a last nugget from you. You said about personal growth. How does somebody recognize something like this and say like, hey, you know what, I'm going to go ahead and personally grow myself first, get my mindset opened up, understand the value of the human life value? And because without that, Jim, you agree that it's not going to change. They will not be able to delegate. They will not be able to invest in themselves. Let's talk about the mindset aspect. What is so important, what needs to change, and how do they recognize it?

Dr. Jim Arnold:
Gosh, that's a $1 million question. It comes down to, I think, at the start, about self-awareness. If you're not self-aware, then oftentimes, you won't see the areas where you need growth. And if you don't see it, then you're not going to know where to seek it out or when to seek it out. And let's be honest, like 90% of people probably, maybe even higher, are just happy where they are, and that's fine. Like you, just the status quo is good enough. That's great. Good for you. But guys like you and me, like we've never been happy with the status quo. We never want to be just a dentist, or just an athlete, or just a business owner. Like we want to excel and do the things at a higher level. And so if that is your mentality, then you have the self-awareness to say, here's where I'm maybe falling short a little bit. Here's where I can elevate my game a little bit, and then it goes right back to mentorship and figuring out where you can get that. And then it comes down to that abundance mindset where, like, hey man, I'm going to invest in myself. I'm going to pay for a shortcut to get to where I want to be. And so you just got to find that right mentor, that right group, get into it, be all in, and just fly because sky is the limit when you do have that abundance mentality.

Dr. Noel Liu:
Awesome, awesome. So Jim my friend, what do you see yourself in the future? What's next for you and your ventures?

Dr. Jim Arnold:
Wow, that is a great question. In here, and now I'm still building both. We're in that building mode, which is exciting. It's an exciting place to be because there's always a new challenge, and there's always something cool that opens up and a new opportunity here and there and everywhere for me. One of the biggest things is really to stay focused on the main thing. And so for me right now, as I grow Luxury Dental Retreats and segue more into like events and things like that. That's something I'm excited about because I think that's something that's sustainable long term. I think that is an ecosystem where I can continue to create growth and value for dentists for a long time, and that just requires having the right people within that ecosystem to help create value. Because, look, I may be good at all of these things at some level, but I'm not necessarily the niche expert. And so I want to continue to attract those niche experts, the best people, to provide the best information to as many dentists as possible because they can get a lot from me, no doubt about it. But if they can get a lot from this guy and this girl and this guy where they're really experts, well then we've got something that can grow to, who knows, we could do whatever we want. And but you know what? It's one day at a time. It's great to have a map and a vision and then just take the steps that you need to take to get to that point. You want to be on the practice side. I'm having fun, man. I'm having great conversations with docs, and I'm about to make a few acquisitions. And I know that these are docs that I want to partner with. We're on the same page, we've got the right vibe, and we're rowing in the same direction. And so, I'm excited about that. Like just having these long-term relationships, these long-term partnerships, we're on the same page and we're all about growth. And it's all about everybody winning. Because if anybody loses, everybody loses. And so transparency, authenticity, like sharing your gifts with other people, that's where real value and real joy comes for me. And so I'm excited about the next 20 years doing exactly that.

Dr. Noel Liu:
And you will just do just great. I mean, with your personality and your attitude, that's what's going to take you to a winning level.

Dr. Jim Arnold:
I appreciate it.

Dr. Noel Liu:
Transparency and wind. Love it, love it. So we're going to land the plane here. LuxuryDentalRetreats.com. Is that right, Jim?

Dr. Jim Arnold:
You got it 100%.

Dr. Noel Liu:
And then how do people find you? Besides the website.

Dr. Jim Arnold:
You know what? People can text me. I'm just going to throw out my cell phone number. Oh, wow. And anybody can text me and set up a call, (219) 241-4698, or email is easy too, D R Arnold, DrArnold@SmilesbyArnold.com. I'm pretty good at responding both ways. And if somebody wants to have a conversation. Hey man, let's get on a Zoom. See where you're at, see where you want to go, and see if I can be that guy to help you get there.

Dr. Noel Liu:
And Jim is also on all the social media platforms, so make sure you look him up. What is it? Jim Arnold and Smiles by Arnold, right?

Dr. Jim Arnold:
Yeah. Those are my two main tags, I guess. I'm pretty active. I probably overshare a little bit, but again, it goes down to that transparency and authenticity. You're never going to see a perfect video from me. You're never going to have a perfect soundbite, but you're going to see me. And if you're a real guy, you want, come on. So hey, man, I really enjoyed the conversation. It's always good to see you. Whether we're having lunch and catching up or catching up like this, where hopefully we have a few listeners out there who get something of value. And hey, man, I just want to let you know I have so much respect for you. I met you in a mastermind four years ago, and man, I was blown away by all the things that you were doing then and now to see the level you're at with the different ventures. I'm really proud of you, man. It's good to see you. And it's good to see you on a different track, developing, creating so much value for so many people. So, it's an honor to have a conversation like this.

Dr. Noel Liu:
Thanks, Jim. You too, my friend. It's like we all have our own roles in this industry to make it better for everybody else. And I feel like if we can do our part, Hard. It's going to change so many lives if everybody does their part. As a matter of fact, I feel like we can change lots of lives.

Dr. Jim Arnold:
100% I agree.

Dr. Noel Liu:
So yeah, Jim, thanks for joining in, man. You know what's great? And we'll definitely be in touch. So Luxury Dental Retreats, and ladies and gentlemen, make sure to like and subscribe, and we are going to be taking off. All right.

Dr. Jim Arnold:
Thanks again.

Dr. Noel Liu:
Take care.

Dr. Jim Arnold:
Have a good one.

Dr. Noel Liu:
Thanks for tuning in to the Secure Dental Podcast. We hope you found today's podcast inspiring and useful to your practice and financial growth. For show notes, resources, and ways to stay engaged with us, visit us at NoelLiuDDS.com. That's N O E L L I U D D S.com.

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